Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Hague Return Denied  (Read 16363 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SageDad

  • Father of Sage
  • Left Behind Parent
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
    • HagueAbductions.com
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2009, 01:26:48 PM »
Quote from: rachelle4;20638
Carlos, isn't today the deadline for your appeal? What is going to happen?


Yes, today is the deadline.  My lawyer left at 4am to drive across country and turn in our appeal without the evidence I requested from the OCI.  This evidence would have potentially been very helpful, but it was not critical.  There is a ton of evidence already that my wife has been living in the US since Oct. of 2007.  The only evidence my wife has to the contrary is her unilateral testimony and a permission slip I signed with a date of Oct 28th. giving her permission to make a tourist visit.  If the OCI ever pulls their head out of their nether regions it is possible that I can still submit the evidence I askedm them for into the appeals process by calling it "super-viniente" or, essentially, "new" evidence that didn't exist or that we didn't have knowledge of before though the dark side will certainly object and claim that it is inadmissable.  It becomes a moot point because the OCI has shown no willingness to provide this information anyway.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi

Offline dmdaven2

  • Left Behind Parent
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2009, 02:55:33 PM »
They'd obtain that info for themselves in a heartbeat if one of their own children were missing...no regard to "policy" then
Devon Davenport - Father of Nadia Lynn ;)

Offline SageDad

  • Father of Sage
  • Left Behind Parent
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
    • HagueAbductions.com
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2009, 03:25:48 PM »
Quote from: dmdaven2;20690
They'd obtain that info for themselves in a heartbeat if one of their own children were missing...no regard to "policy" then


They aren't even claiming it's against policy.  They give a bunch of ill-defined nebulous answers about how they don't have it, it won't be useful to me.. blah blah blah.  If you read the State Department's Foreign Affairs Manual on International Parental Child Abduction they directly say that their goal is to "protect the best interests of the child" and specifically not to support the LBP and of course, who am I to argue against something as well-intentioned as that?  Well.. there's a reason the Hague Convention left that phrasing out.  It's too ill-defined and too often manipulated to mean whatever the person interpreting it wants it to mean.  The State Department has shown a preference to supporting the mother against the father even when the mother is the abductor.  This is all just a custodial dispute to them anyway and they don't need to support the LBP if they can convince themselves that withholding evidence or just being another lazy useless bureaucracy is in the child's best interest.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi

Offline jdv28

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 528
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2009, 02:55:39 AM »
Carlos can you supeona the documents you want?  And ask for a change in judges.  On the fact that she didn't seem to have accurret (ms) knowledge of the hague convention, and need one that understands the process.

And beings you can prove that your wife lied, the judge may seem somewhat biased because she completley ignored your facts.  I'd report her to her council.  It'd be a black mark on her record as a judge.  No matter how big or small.  Just an idea.
Give MORE these:hug:  & LESS these :argue:

Offline SageDad

  • Father of Sage
  • Left Behind Parent
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
    • HagueAbductions.com
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2009, 10:03:39 AM »
We already get a different judge when we go to appeals.. actually 3 new judges who will be reviewing the case in it's entirety guided by our list of grievances in the appeal.  For the most part the family court judge no longer has any involvement in this case.  

I could work w/ my US attorney to try and subpoena the documentation I asked OCI to get me and I considered doing it, but I don't like to ask her for anything considering her hourly rates.  Paying the fees for my attorney in Mexico is much more important and leaves me very little to be able to ask my US attorney to do much more than she's already done.  Also not much chance I would have gotten the subpoena filed and honored before filing my appeal.  I could still do it, but they may not accept the documentation now and the Central Authority of Mexico has already committed to giving us the documentation that they have for entries and exits into Mexico, although the swine flu has made most Mexican government offices grind to a halt and has delayed them getting it to me.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi

Offline Bree

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1100
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2009, 04:16:37 PM »
Quote from: dmdaven2;20690
They'd obtain that info for themselves in a heartbeat if one of their own children were missing...no regard to "policy" then

I would love to ask the State Dept/OCI just what is the purpose of our tax dollars supporting an office that obviously serves no purpose or at least its intended purpose.  If they aren't going to assist the LBP's like they are supposed to, they what in the sam-hill are they doing each and every day?  I'm sure that they have other duties, but come on....  
 
My heart breaks for all the LBP's.
"Every parent who has a child and they tuck him in at night, or her in at night, and they wish the best and only the best and they will always protect the child and do whatever they can, but most of the time they don't have to prove it. I'm in the proving grounds, to myself and to my child.  I have to get him home and I will do whatever I have to. I'll never stop to save him."  --David Goldman

Offline sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3053
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2009, 09:20:19 PM »
Quote from: carlos;20697
They aren't even claiming it's against policy. They give a bunch of ill-defined nebulous answers about how they don't have it, it won't be useful to me.. blah blah blah. If you read the State Department's Foreign Affairs Manual on International Parental Child Abduction they directly say that their goal is to "protect the best interests of the child" and specifically not to support the LBP and of course, who am I to argue against something as well-intentioned as that? Well.. there's a reason the Hague Convention left that phrasing out. It's too ill-defined and too often manipulated to mean whatever the person interpreting it wants it to mean. The State Department has shown a preference to supporting the mother against the father even when the mother is the abductor. This is all just a custodial dispute to them anyway and they don't need to support the LBP if they can convince themselves that withholding evidence or just being another lazy useless bureaucracy is in the child's best interest.
It's none of their damn business whether it's useless to you or not.  That just makes me sick when someone says something like that.  As if you asked them for their advise?  Whatever.  When will the judges be hearing your appeal?  Or should I say, how long do you have to wait?

Offline rachelle4

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2009, 12:36:44 AM »
Any updates on your appeal?

Offline SageDad

  • Father of Sage
  • Left Behind Parent
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
    • HagueAbductions.com
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2009, 09:09:30 PM »
Not really.  We filed our appeal with the family court on May 5th.  I'm sure the judge loved reading us rip apart her handling of the case :)  She then had to give the opposing party a period of time to review it and submit their response before mailing all documents to the appeals court.  My lawyer drove down again on thurs and verified that the family court sent off the appeal, their response and all the case files and evidence to the appelate court on May 20th, which i'm guessing was after they waited till the last possible day they could legally do so.  It should get to the court in the next day or so and the appeal process will formally begin in the upper court.  Once that happens my lawyer will go down again so we can get copies of my wife's response to our appeal and speak with the judges and clerks to get a better idea of how much time this will take.  The courts always say that time spans are determined based on the courts case load..  I hope the appeals court will treat this as an urgent matter, something the family court never did, and that their case load is small.  In any case, it will easily be 3 months before they reach a final decision in the appeals court.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi

Offline Sashia

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2009, 09:56:08 PM »
Carlos, I feel so helpless. Is there anything we can do at this point?  More letters, more phone calls? what about media? Is there any advantage to getting media attention?

Offline sue

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3053
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2009, 10:47:51 PM »
Are you going to see your son in the mean time?

Offline SageDad

  • Father of Sage
  • Left Behind Parent
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
    • HagueAbductions.com
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2009, 11:15:46 PM »
Quote from: gail;22658
Are you going to see your son in the mean time?


I need to talk to my lawyer about that and see what he says.  I want to be able to arrange something where I can see him at least every few months until this is done.  Arranging visitation in a way that minimizes the risk to myself and the Hague case can be complicated though.  We had them schedule previous visits at the same time as other court dates that were set so that we could have them at the court and my attorney would be there.  In theory there should be no more court dates so that probably won't work anymore.  My lawyer is a XXXXX* guy and generally forsees anything they could try to do long before they do.  It's not easy to get something past an attorney that handles only international abduction cases and was born and raised in Mexico City.  Hopefully he has some good ideas about how we can set this up.

*Ok seriously... can someone remove s h a r p from the filter?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 11:16:49 PM by carlos »
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi


Offline wicasa

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 159247
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2022, 07:24:58 AM »

Offline wicasa

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 159247
Re: Hague Return Denied
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2022, 07:26:05 AM »