Extradition from India

[SageDad]

Was just reading this news story:

http://www.hindu.com/2009/08/10/stories/2009081054991200.htm

about a new Supreme Court decision regarding extradition from India to the US.  In my reading of it I got the impression that extradition would be possible if charges were filed under the IPKCA.  Is that accurate?

[ananddad]

Was just reading this news story:
 
http://www.hindu.com/2009/08/10/stories/2009081054991200.htm
 
about a new Supreme Court decision regarding extradition from India to the US. In my reading of it I got the impression that extradition would be possible if charges were filed under the IPKCA. Is that accurate?

Unfortunately not. The High Court refused to stay the extradition as decided by CBI (Indian equivalent of FBI). Supreme Court upheld the appeal filed by the father. Though they cite, as one reason, the absence of a formal request at Government level (from DoS to Ministry of External Affairs), they also stress that domestic law would trump the extradition treaty when conflict exists between the two. And International Parental Kidnapping is not a crime under the Indian Penal Code. However, the Apex Court recommended MEA (and legislature) to address this issue which was not part of the Indian Penal Code of 1860.

[ananddad]

Totally unrelated to child abduction, but check this out:
 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/world/indians-abroad/Court-reserves-order-on-extradition-of-NRI-fugitive-to-US/articleshow/5005472.cms.
 
Even when Ministry of External Affairs wants to extradite someone from India to US, they have to go through Indian Courts. Let us hope the Sept 30 decision would be in favor of extradition. If not, India will be viewed as a safe haven not only for child abductors but also murderers.

[ananddad]

The above fugitive is, at last, allowed to be extradited back to US to face charges of killing his estranged wife: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/indians-abroad/Court-allows-extradition-of-NRI-fugitive-to-US-for-wifes-murder/articleshow/6148459.cms.

The guy was arrested by Indian Law Enforcement in March 2007 as soon as he landed in Delhi and Indian Courts took 40 months to rule on his extradition. And we Indians keep deluding ourselves that we will soon become a super power in the world

[SageDad]

Better later than never.  Brazil refuses to extradite murderers as well.. actually doesn't even arrest them.

Claudia "Cris" Cristina Hoerig shot and killed her husband in March 2007 then fled to Brazil

[kittykat]

Better later than never.  Brazil refuses to extradite murderers as well.. actually doesn't even arrest them.

Claudia "Cris" Cristina Hoerig shot and killed her husband in March 2007 then fled to Brazil

ummm......yeah, and nazi concentration camp officers neither.

[forthelost]

Better later than never.  Brazil refuses to extradite murderers as well.. actually doesn't even arrest them.

Claudia "Cris" Cristina Hoerig shot and killed her husband in March 2007 then fled to Brazil

ummm......yeah, and nazi concentration camp officers neither.

That was Argentina.

[kittykat]

That was Argentina.

Eichmann was captured in Argentina but there were several South American countries that provided refuge to Nazis, including Brazil. Mengele fled first to Argentina but went to Paraguay after Eichmann was captured, for fear of being captured himself, and finally went to Brazil in 1967 and died there in 1979. Brazil's other big-name nazi residents were Carl Vaernet who was the doctor at Buchenwald and fled initially to Brazil but then traveled on to Argentina; Gustav Wagner, convicted in abstentia at Nuremburg for being the deputy commandant of Sobibor death camp in Poland, who flew to Brazil after the war and was admitted as a permanent resident there in 1950. He was finally discovered there in 1978. Brazil rejected extradition requests for him by Israel, Austria, Poland and West Germany. On a positive note, Franz Stangl, who was the head of the Treblinka death camp, was extradited by Brazil to West Germany in 1967, after having lived there since 1951 under his own name with his wife and children. So, Brazil's record isn't as bad as Argentina's, but if you're a Nazi war criminal, Brazil's still a good place to be.

[André Felipe]

Brazil can not extradict a brazilian citizen, according to the Constitution, which does not mean this citizen can not be criminaly charged, if the foreign coutry request it.

About nazi officers...US was also a paradise for nazists, especially those who had knowledge about rocketry, nuclear weapons, and collateral effects of low pressure and the vacuum over human body... No one has a clean past here.

[sue]

didn't we send a nazi back to germany a while back?  I believe we did.

[André Felipe]

didn't we send a nazi back to germany a while back?  I believe we did.

Yes, US extradited some nazi, those who hadn't any contribution to give to the Space Program. Beating the soviets was more important.

[SageDad]

Brazil can not extradict a brazilian citizen, according to the Constitution, which does not mean this citizen can not be criminaly charged, if the foreign coutry request it.

About nazi officers...US was also a paradise for nazists, especially those who had knowledge about rocketry, nuclear weapons, and collateral effects of low pressure and the vacuum over human body... No one has a clean past here.

We're not talking past here.  Brazil continues to protect murderers and pedohpiles even today.  Being Brazilian is a golden ticket to go travel the world, meet new and interesting people.. and kill them.  They can go play pirate, raping and pillaging, and then run back home to Brazil and pretend it never happened.  Hiding behind their Constitution is not a valid pretext for anything.  It's not as though God came down from on high and told Brazil "thou shalt include a clause in your Constitutional government that forbids extradition."

[André Felipe]

The Constitution can not be changed in the part that mentions extradition. Only a new Constitution can change this, which is something that is impossible to happen in the present circunstances.
As said before, just because the citizen can not be extradited does not mean he/she can not be criminaly charged by the brazilian Judiciary. The foreigner coutry can perfectly start a criminal proceeding. If the citizen is found guilty, he/she won't be jailed in the foreigner coutry, but in brazilian prisons, which compared to american prisons make these last ones almost like heaven.
Many other countries have the same rules forbiding the extradition of its citizens. I personaly think that brazilian citizens could be extradited in certain cases, the previous Constitucion allowed extradition, but the current Constitution does not, and you can not question a sovereign decision of another country in these matters.

[André Felipe]

Brazil signed the Treaty of Rome, submitting itself to the jurisdicion of the International Criminal Court.
If a brazilian citizen commits one of the crimes listed in the above Treaty (like crimes against humanity), Brazil shall have to deliver the citizen to face charge before the International Court.
USA, along with countrys like Iran and Sudan and China, did not signed the treaty. It's a sovereign decision of US, and so it shall be respected by others.

[sue]

Has anyone heard from Ananddad?  I'm wondering if he has his son and is back in the US.