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Author Topic: Appeal Filed  (Read 35549 times)

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Offline SageDad

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #75 on: July 25, 2011, 12:33:46 PM »
Let it be known that visiting a school in Brazil means your children can be abducted there.

It can't mean you are a teacher interested in education itself.

It can't even mean you are considering moving there at some point in the future, or plan to live there temporarily, neither of which create the "shared intent" of a permanent change in the family's residence that is the standard used by every other country that considers such things when looking at the place of habitual residence.

No, it in fact means that you intend to permanently change your place of residence to Brazil...

If that sort of reasoning passes for what LBP's can expect from Brazil's high courts they are even worse off than I previously though.  The fact that it took years for them to come to such illogical conclusions only makes it that much worse.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
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Offline AnotherDad

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #76 on: July 25, 2011, 01:31:59 PM »
This may seem like a stupid question, but David was able to get huge press coverage of every twist in his case. Once Sean was home the remaining LBPs became essentially invisible. SO, is it possible that with some sort of effort, we could get some significant press coverage about the facts of the blatant uncaring ignorance, laziness and incompetence of those at the OCI to begin the process of getting accountability from our own govt.? Press about the Brazilian behavior is just as important to tell, but I know that too many facts about more than one issue is more than people can absorb at once, so I guess just starting with the OCI seems like a worthwhile step. I don't know that NBC producer who was with David through his case, Benita Noel-Alexander or something like that, but fighting uphill like this for all of you is just too much without publicity, Who can we sell this to? Thoughts?

Offline tweinstein

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #77 on: July 25, 2011, 01:43:01 PM »
This may seem like a stupid question, but David was able to get huge press coverage of every twist in his case. Once Sean was home the remaining LBPs became essentially invisible. SO, is it possible that with some sort of effort, we could get some significant press coverage about the facts of the blatant uncaring ignorance, laziness and incompetence of those at the OCI to begin the process of getting accountability from our own govt.? Press about the Brazilian behavior is just as important to tell, but I know that too many facts about more than one issue is more than people can absorb at once, so I guess just starting with the OCI seems like a worthwhile step. I don't know that NBC producer who was with David through his case, Benita Noel-Alexander or something like that, but fighting uphill like this for all of you is just too much without publicity, Who can we sell this to? Thoughts?
I think that the media is only interested in a story if it will earn them money. David's case got so much attention because Bruna died. Mr. McCarty's case gets attention because the child was taken from the Italian mother and put into an orphanage. I don't think there is much interest in the other cases, like mine, where the children live with a parent who is still alive and presumably competent.

Offline liesl78

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #78 on: July 25, 2011, 04:07:18 PM »
I'm sorry Tim. This is heartbreaking. I have no words...  :mad:
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Offline Nicole's Dad

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #79 on: July 25, 2011, 04:12:23 PM »
Very sorry Tim :(

At least now you have an answer though and I expect that is worth quite a bit by itself, regardless of the fact that it is a negative one.  It's been my experience that not knowing when you will have an answer or what it will be is a serious source of stress in and of itself.  It's impossible to plan your life when such an important question is left unresolved.

Normally such blatantly wrong interpretations of the facts of the case are resolved over the course of appeals.  It's one thing when a lower court gets the basic facts wrong or takes the unilateral manifestations of one of the parties as if it were, in and of itself, some sort of evidence (as bad as that is) but such mistakes should be resolved during the appeals process.

Does this result change your opinion of the representation provided by the AGU?  Admittedly, absent some serious incompetence in the Brazilian high courts, it seems to me that the least the AGU could have done was gotten the courts to get the basic facts right (like whether or not you waited a year to file a claim,) if not the interpretation of the law.
I think the problem is that the AGU represents the Brazilian government and not the left-behind parent. Consequently, the communication between them and me was terrible. On many occasions, I presented documents to the OCI and BCA, but have no evidence that they ever found their way to the AGU. The appeal that was filed attempted to address many of the "facts" from the first level, but it seems that the judges rejected the AGU's argument. For example, the appeal court confirmed that simply visiting a school once was "strong evidence" of my intentions to move to Brazil. On another example, they completely ignored that I had filed my petition in October, 2006 and stated the illegal retention occurred in August, 2006 (when they did not return) by stating that more than one year had elapsed because my children first entered Brazil in June, 2006 (with my permission) and the AGU didn't file the case until July, 2007. There were other "facts" that the AGU did not address in the appeal, but there were so many reasons for denying the return, even had I successfully attacked 2 or 3, the judges would have found other reasons not to return my children.
You are correct in saying the AGU does not represent you. They represent the Federal Government of Brazil. You are not part of the lawsuit. It is Brazil against the TP. They do not and will not represent you in federal court. You will need your own lawyer that.

Offline phillyone

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #80 on: July 25, 2011, 08:35:39 PM »
Tim, I am so sorry!!!! I just don't know what to say!

 Do you think HR1940 would have resulted in a different outcome for you if it was passed?

Offline tweinstein

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #81 on: July 25, 2011, 10:21:54 PM »
Tim, I am so sorry!!!! I just don't know what to say!

Do you think HR1940 would have resulted in a different outcome for you if it was passed?
I don't think that HR1940 would have influence if there is only one case like mine. However, given that I am one of many in Brazil, I would hope that legislators here would move to enact some form of sanctions as proposed in HR1940. Only AFTER this was done, may it have helped. The problem is that in Brazil, once the "facts" are set by the first judge, the left-behind parent has the deck stacked against them. Given the inaccuracy of the majority of  "facts" that the first judge accepted as evidence, the ruling at the second level was not surprising. What is surprising is that the judge accepted as "fact", without questioning the validity, all of the crap that was thrown at him.

When I filed my case, five years ago, left-behind parents were operating in the dark. Only through this website have we been able to help each other navigate the process. And with this, future applicants will have better results. Unfortunately, I was one of the earlier Hague cases in Brazil.

Offline ANALE

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #82 on: July 25, 2011, 11:06:30 PM »
I feel so bad about this.  First Michael McCarty and now you.  What an injustice to both of you!!!  I'd like to wring the neck of these judges!!!!

Offline tweinstein

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #83 on: July 25, 2011, 11:21:44 PM »
I just got a better translation of the ruling from Andre Felipe. After so many years of this crap, why do I still get upset about the injustice carried out by the Brazilian "justice" system. When I told my family members and friends today about the "news", they universally replied, "Isn't that what you expected?"

Offline Bree

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #84 on: July 26, 2011, 03:48:40 AM »
I'm sorry to read the outcome of your case, Tim.  It's just not fair.  And, not only are you being punished, your children are as well. 

Now that the final decision has been made, do you think your wife will feel less threatened (not to say she ever did) and allow you a chance to have a more normal relationship with your children?  By 'more normal', I mean visitation that doesn't require you to travel to Brazil.  I'm sure your family in PA would love to see your children again.  Would she consider allowing your children to visit you in the US (like Marty's agreement for Nicole to visit him in Texas)? 

I do hope that your wife will soon come to do what is right for your children.  She needs to not be selfish and remember that she has to do right by them...this is no longer about her, nor should it have ever been.
"Every parent who has a child and they tuck him in at night, or her in at night, and they wish the best and only the best and they will always protect the child and do whatever they can, but most of the time they don't have to prove it. I'm in the proving grounds, to myself and to my child.  I have to get him home and I will do whatever I have to. I'll never stop to save him."  --David Goldman

Offline tweinstein

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #85 on: July 26, 2011, 06:37:58 AM »
I'm sorry to read the outcome of your case, Tim.  It's just not fair.  And, not only are you being punished, your children are as well.
You are absolutely correct.  
Quote
Now that the final decision has been made, do you think your wife will feel less threatened (not to say she ever did) and allow you a chance to have a more normal relationship with your children?  By 'more normal', I mean visitation that doesn't require you to travel to Brazil.  I'm sure your family in PA would love to see your children again.  Would she consider allowing your children to visit you in the US (like Marty's agreement for Nicole to visit him in Texas)?
Yes, but I don't know what the conditions are and suspect that her attorney will make many demands. Interestingly, I met and spoke to him many times. He knows that nearly everything he convinced he judge of is a lie, but didn't care. To him, it was all about winning. That is why I have a low opinion of the legal profession. It seems to be more about winning than being honest.
Quote
I do hope that your wife will soon come to do what is right for your children.  She needs to not be selfish and remember that she has to do right by them...this is no longer about her, nor should it have ever been.
Absolutely true again.

Offline rduffiel

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #86 on: July 26, 2011, 07:04:08 AM »
I am so sorry about this biased and horribly unfair decision.   I hope that Congressman Smith and his committee use this as further evidence for holding accountable, the OCI and their gross incompetence.


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Offline NoansDad

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #87 on: July 26, 2011, 07:21:01 AM »
Tim, I am very sorry mate to hear that the injustice of how you started out with your Hague case was never corrected because small minded people can't ever admit that they, or their countrymen, could ever be wrong.

You were the first person I spoke to when I got on here and the advice and direction you gave me has been invaluable. I would never have been able to manage anything without the work of all the LBP who had to suffer before me and so it makes me very upset that you have also now had to suffer the ultimate loss of your rights that you started fighting for years ago on your own.

Noan, your Dad loves you and misses you every single day.

Offline lovellboys

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #88 on: July 26, 2011, 09:17:47 AM »
I'm sorry to read the outcome of your case, Tim.  It's just not fair.  And, not only are you being punished, your children are as well. 

Now that the final decision has been made, do you think your wife will feel less threatened (not to say she ever did) and allow you a chance to have a more normal relationship with your children?  By 'more normal', I mean visitation that doesn't require you to travel to Brazil.  I'm sure your family in PA would love to see your children again.  Would she consider allowing your children to visit you in the US (like Marty's agreement for Nicole to visit him in Texas)? 

I do hope that your wife will soon come to do what is right for your children.  She needs to not be selfish and remember that she has to do right by them...this is no longer about her, nor should it have ever been.

 :yeahthat

Did the final judgment state anything about visitation rights?  I did not read the entire thread, so forgive me if I missed it.  But I am wondering if these results means your wife was given sole aurthority over your children, or if there is room for you to arrange visits and continued contacted.

I guess what I am really wondering is if the LBP is expected to fall off the face of the earth after final judgments like this, or if the court, even though they make a mockery of the system, leaves room for continued co-parenting even if the children can't leave the country.

Offline dmdaven2

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Re: Appeal Filed
« Reply #89 on: July 26, 2011, 11:10:01 AM »
 :eek: smh...at least when your children finally decide to come see you on their own in the US...you can honestly say you did everything you could to try and have them back...
Devon Davenport - Father of Nadia Lynn ;)