Andoni Petroutsas - Abducted to Greece

[andonisdaddy]

My name is George Petroutsas, I am Andoni's Daddy, this is our story:

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/localnews/ci_15669472

[Diane]

I am heartsick to hear your story.   It is a lesson in the absolute depravity of these abductors, to know that they are incapable of feeling or envisioning the pain they inflect on their children or the left behind parent. I can only imagine the heartache and fear for your son, that you experienced when your son was not on that plane.   

In your case, it sounds as though you will have the support to pursue the abductor and the legal community behind you.   How stupid of the judge who allowed "one last visit", with a criminal child abductor.  A cautionary tale all left behind parents are aware of.  The judges who make these horrible decisions should be thrown in jail for decisions which have tragic implications for parents who have sacrificed everything, spent years, and endured untold heartache,  just to be reunited with their own dear child.

[SageDad]

My reading of this story is that Judge Jeremy Fogel should be disbarred.  First he gave custody to an established child abductor in contravention of a State custody order he didn't seem to have any jurisdiction to modify but then, once federal appeals courts threw out his garbage decision, he undermined the appeals courts decision by facilitating, and all but encouraging, a second abduction.  Not only was a new abduction an easily forseeable consequence of his decision,, but it would be silly to expect that it would end any other way.  Greece may have signed the Hague Convention but, given the stories I read, they rarely seem to comply with it,  Taking children to countries that will not abide by the Hague Convention should be completely curtailed unless explicit permission is given to permanently relocate a child or the other custodial parent agrees.  Allowing "vacations" to these countries against the very reasonable objections of custodial parents is a legal backdoor to completely subvert America's laws and jurisdiction and abuse children.

...welcome to BSH andonisdaddy

[Angel]

Well, Andonis daddy should be ashamed of his actions! Once again he is using his son to get publicity. Mr same old Petroutsas George, playing poor daddy! Has anyone of you guys who rushed to reply have done a basic Google search of his name?? We are talking about a real gangster here, who did not care about the safety of his own child when he hired abductors to kidnap his son. Mr George Petroutsas!! The poor daddy! Is this the same father who engaged an International ring of child abductors to abduct his child? Is this the same father who smuggled his child through Canada? Is this the same father who has been charged with 15 months imprisonment for illegal pocession of firearms?
Is this the same father who has criminal charges for domestic violence?
Is this the same father, a proud member of the Greek Orthodox church in Santa Cruz, whose family has lent the church with an enormous interest rate? Or maybe is this the same father who is accused of civil fraud for 3500000 usd for embezzlement? Or the same father who has charges against him for credit card fraud? Or maybe the same George Petroutsas, a 40 year old guy who cheated on his pregnant wife with his Greek American ex girlfriend when his wife was on her due date?
A real role model for that child?
Maybe Fogel was a brave guy after all!

[Angel]

Mr SageDad,
how quickly you jump to conclusions! Perhaps you should read the 9th Circuit Court order and listen to the minutes to see for yourself that the order was reversed because of a technicality. Or better you should contact Interpol and ask them for the real reason why poor Mr Petroutsas cannot enter Greece!!!! You will be amazed!!

[André Felipe]

evidences...??

[SageDad]

Mr SageDad,
how quickly you jump to conclusions! Perhaps you should read the 9th Circuit Court order and listen to the minutes to see for yourself that the order was reversed because of a technicality. Or better you should contact Interpol and ask them for the real reason why poor Mr Petroutsas cannot enter Greece!!!! You will be amazed!!

AndonisDaddy is not the one here posting anonymously with wild accusations Angel.  His side of the story is the one that's published.  Additionally, your definition of technicality and mine may very well be quite different, but if you give me a link to the court's decision I'll evaluate your unilateral, unsupported, and seemingly unpublished claim.  Greece has a track record of noncompliance with the Hague Abduction Convention.  What you are terming an "abduction" also, based on the article, looks like the recovery of a child illegally retained in a foreign country, ie the recovery of an abducted child.  I can't object to the extralegal recovery of children illegally held in Greece when Greek courts permit no other reasonable form of repatriation.  If recovering a child whose abduction is being illegally sanctioned by Greece makes someone a criminal in Greece then Greece is the real criminal.

Lending money to the church sounds like a noble thing to do.  If the interests rates were too high why would they agree?  In America we have the right to bear arms.  If he really cheated on his wife on her due date that's a pretty shitty thing to do, but it in no way justifies the abduction of a child or the denial of a child's right to know their father.

The people in these forums read about, or live, these cases all the time.  You'd be amazed at how good they are at reading between the lines.

[KarlHindle]

 :yeahthat

[forthelost]

I've seen hundreds of these cases, and in my experience every person who claims to have secret evidence that their ex is evil and they were doing the right thing all the time don't ever manage to find it or show it to me.

[KarlHindle]

I've seen hundreds of these cases, and in my experience every person who claims to have secret evidence that their ex is evil and they were doing the right thing all the time don't ever manage to find it or show it to me.

Strange that, there is always this "evidence"...so far I've been accused of:

rape
drug dealing
drug smuggling
alcoholism
fraud
child pornography
having sex with my children
rampant affairs
attempted break in
stalking
harassment
domestic violence
welfare fraud
false claims of military service
threats with menaces
common assault
grievous bodily harm
deserting my kids
child neglect
failure to pay child support

...yet the "evidence" has never materialised.

Meanwhile, we are waiting for one notable exclusion...murder.

(Send me your wish hit list please...just in case)

[Angel]

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Financial-Services/Larry-Kroeker-Wholes/larry-kroeker-wholesale-housi-83ae6.htm

[SageDad]

Anyone can submit their own "Rip-Off" report on that site.  Sounds like the guy who submitted this one, Ken, is also defending himself and says:

"Ironically, I have been left to face the responsibility of addressing accusations of impropriety from California authorities all by myself, when it is actually Mr. Kroeker himself that should be doing so. I'm not worried though, because I know what I did, and no final judgment has been made against me yet, despite what Mr. Kroker has said in his statements against me. We do live in a land where you are innocent until proven guilty, and I still have that presumption. Mr. Kroeker, on the other hand does not."

Then he recommends readers look at the sites www.larrykroeker.com and www.wholesalehousing.biz for more information.. except neither of these sites exist.

...but yeah, maybe you're right, maybe we should sanction child abduction on the grounds that someone with an axe to grind submitted a consumer Rip-Off report that had the name of the victimized parent in it.  

[petras]

Mr SageDad,
how quickly you jump to conclusions! Perhaps you should read the 9th Circuit Court order and listen to the minutes to see for yourself that the order was reversed because of a technicality. Or better you should contact Interpol and ask them for the real reason why poor Mr Petroutsas cannot enter Greece!!!! You will be amazed!!

AndonisDaddy is not the one here posting anonymously with wild accusations Angel.  His side of the story is the one that's published.  Additionally, your definition of technicality and mine may very well be quite different, but if you give me a link to the court's decision I'll evaluate your unilateral, unsupported, and seemingly unpublished claim.  Greece has a track record of noncompliance with the Hague Abduction Convention.  What you are terming an "abduction" also, based on the article, looks like the recovery of a child illegally retained in a foreign country, ie the recovery of an abducted child.  I can't object to the extralegal recovery of children illegally held in Greece when Greek courts permit no other reasonable form of repatriation.  If recovering a child whose abduction is being illegally sanctioned by Greece makes someone a criminal in Greece then Greece is the real criminal.

Lending money to the church sounds like a noble thing to do.  If the interests rates were too high why would they agree?  In America we have the right to bear arms.  If he really cheated on his wife on her due date that's a pretty shitty thing to do, but it in no way justifies the abduction of a child or the denial of a child's right to know their father.

The people in these forums read about, or live, these cases all the time.  You'd be amazed at how good they are at reading between the lines.

Sagedad , this is a very serious case and before you express your opinion and your "judgement " about it  you should examine both sides of the story ,something that the "journalist " of the article did not do at all  and this is at least immoral. As I see some evidence is already available for you and i am sure many more will follow.Additionaly ,there is a greek order that awards full permanent custody to the mother but nobody has mention it.Also keep in mind that the only common citizenship for father ,mother and child is the Greek one (father and child dual citizenship ,mother sigle greek citizenship) whatever this means for international legal relationships.

At last ask Andoni's father to explain the following sentences from the publication

"Petroutsas filed a Hague petition in Greek courts so he could have custody of his son, something a Santa Cruz County judge had granted him, but the Greek court quashed the father's attempt (petition denied).

So three years ago, Petroutsas took matters into his own hands. He went to Greece and took Andoni. When they got back on U.S. soil, Petroutsas went to family court in Santa Cruz to confess what he had done.

[Angel]

fyi for sage dad and Andonis daddy

[Angel]

For Sage Daddy and the rest of you.