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Author Topic: Ruling in my case?  (Read 23252 times)

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Offline Belleizel

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2010, 05:05:33 AM »
THe first time that I saw the littlegirl, I saw the true between father and daughter. Its realy amazing, you will spend 3 months in years with her. I saw your photos in Rio, I would like to be there, with Juli , and give you the congratulations.
You littleprincess will love it this time with you. And when you see her, and this bed time, will be like nothing, because the love is more stronger...I wish the best for bouth... :yeahthat :yeahthat :yeahthat

Offline UD_student

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2010, 10:24:30 AM »
Klaus, I'm happy for you that the ruling the judge handed down is pretty much what you were asking for in terms of access that your daughter will be with you on her school vacations! Best wishes for a happy reunion in January!! It was long overdue.

Do you think your case offers a good precedent for other parents asking for access and getting their court agreements about custody and child support from another country implemented in Brazil or do you think the seemingly small liberties the judge took in modifying the agreement leave the door open for other judges to ignore other court agreements (which some judges do well already) ?

Offline KBZensen

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2010, 04:15:44 PM »
Klaus, I'm happy for you that the ruling the judge handed down is pretty much what you were asking for in terms of access that your daughter will be with you on her school vacations! Best wishes for a happy reunion in January!! It was long overdue.

Do you think your case offers a good precedent for other parents asking for access and getting their court agreements about custody and child support from another country implemented in Brazil or do you think the seemingly small liberties the judge took in modifying the agreement leave the door open for other judges to ignore other court agreements (which some judges do well already) ?


Good points... I did think about the exact same issue... My opinion is taking an aggressive approach for complete "return" of the child may be appropriate in a case like Sean Goldman.  For cases in which the mother is alive and obviously has a strong desire to live in Brazil and no longer in the U.S., the access approach and a 9 month Brazil w/mother + 3 month U.S./w/father approach may be much more realistic and practicable.  It is deep down in the Brazilian culture to save people's face whenever possible and even if the mother obviously was wrong to take a child to Brazil or retain it there without authorization of the father, the judge will try to save her face and come to an amicable agreement.  In my opinion, the 9+3 approach will work much faster than a request for complete and unconditional return.

Klaus

 

Offline KBZensen

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2010, 08:53:59 PM »
Klaus, I'm happy for you that the ruling the judge handed down is pretty much what you were asking for in terms of access that your daughter will be with you on her school vacations! Best wishes for a happy reunion in January!! It was long overdue.

Do you think your case offers a good precedent for other parents asking for access and getting their court agreements about custody and child support from another country implemented in Brazil or do you think the seemingly small liberties the judge took in modifying the agreement leave the door open for other judges to ignore other court agreements (which some judges do well already) ?


Good points... I did think about the exact same issue... My opinion is taking an aggressive approach for complete "return" of the child may be appropriate in a case like Sean Goldman.  For cases in which the mother is alive and obviously has a strong desire to live in Brazil and no longer in the U.S., the access approach and a 9 month Brazil w/mother + 3 month U.S./w/father approach may be much more realistic and practicable.  It is deep down in the Brazilian culture to save people's face whenever possible and even if the mother obviously was wrong to take a child to Brazil or retain it there without authorization of the father, the judge will try to save her face and come to an amicable agreement.  In my opinion, the 9+3 approach will work much faster than a request for complete and unconditional return.

Klaus

 

There is not much I can say about the precedent issue.  To my best knowledge, the U.S. justice system is  precedent-based, while the Brazilian justice system is based on laws, not on precedent, so each judge may have his own interpretation of the law.  But again, I am not an expert in this field.
Klaus

Offline André Felipe

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2010, 11:42:59 AM »
There is not much I can say about the precedent issue.  To my best knowledge, the U.S. justice system is  precedent-based, while the Brazilian justice system is based on laws, not on precedent, so each judge may have his own interpretation of the law.  But again, I am not an expert in this field.
Klaus

In difficult cases, judges use to study precedents before making a ruling. Precedents are very important, in some situations precedents prevail over the law, but it's not mandatory, except some precedents from STJ and the Supreme Court.

Offline tweinstein

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2010, 05:43:32 PM »
Good points... I did think about the exact same issue... My opinion is taking an aggressive approach for complete "return" of the child may be appropriate in a case like Sean Goldman.  For cases in which the mother is alive and obviously has a strong desire to live in Brazil and no longer in the U.S., the access approach and a 9 month Brazil w/mother + 3 month U.S./w/father approach may be much more realistic and practicable.  It is deep down in the Brazilian culture to save people's face whenever possible and even if the mother obviously was wrong to take a child to Brazil or retain it there without authorization of the father, the judge will try to save her face and come to an amicable agreement.  In my opinion, the 9+3 approach will work much faster than a request for complete and unconditional return.
I agree with this 100%. It has become obvious to me that the Brazilian judges have no intention of complying with the Hague Convention and that petitions for return, even when the law is clear, will go nowhere.

Offline Nicole's Dad

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2010, 07:25:47 PM »
I realized that a long time ago Tim. I even told you about it and what I was doing to try and encourage you to do the same thing.

Offline dmdaven2

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2010, 06:12:28 PM »
Good points... I did think about the exact same issue... My opinion is taking an aggressive approach for complete "return" of the child may be appropriate in a case like Sean Goldman.  For cases in which the mother is alive and obviously has a strong desire to live in Brazil and no longer in the U.S., the access approach and a 9 month Brazil w/mother + 3 month U.S./w/father approach may be much more realistic and practicable.  It is deep down in the Brazilian culture to save people's face whenever possible and even if the mother obviously was wrong to take a child to Brazil or retain it there without authorization of the father, the judge will try to save her face and come to an amicable agreement.  In my opinion, the 9+3 approach will work much faster than a request for complete and unconditional return.
I agree with this 100%. It has become obvious to me that the Brazilian judges have no intention of complying with the Hague Convention and that petitions for return, even when the law is clear, will go nowhere.

I think it depends on the complexity of the case...as well as the judge you have.
Devon Davenport - Father of Nadia Lynn ;)

Offline Anke

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2010, 04:53:29 PM »
I wrote some words in your other site of BSHF, and just now I did read what has come out of the hearing.
Congratuations. Perhaps Brazil will cooperate in some cases. They did also in the case of Thiago de Sousa Maciel, who is now back in the Netherlands, together with his half-sister. Perhaps it was a bit easier because his Father and mother are living here. But also that took 2 years.
I wish you a lot of luck with your daughter in vacation time.
Vieles Glück.

Offline KBZensen

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2010, 02:36:35 PM »
"Wheels up" delayed...

I am sad to say, the issuance of the U.S. passport is delaying my daughter's return to the U.S. for at least 06 months.  I had all documents in my hands: U.S. birth certificate, expired U.S. passport, Statement of Consent to issue a Passport to a Minor Under Age 16 (DS 3053) signed mother and notarized by U.S. Consulate in Rio de Janeiro, passport photos, etc.

The State Department knew very well that I wanted to apply for my daughter's passport in the U.S., but when I finally had all documents in my hands, the State Department insisted that the mother would have to apply in the presence of my daughter at the U.S. Consulate in Rio and that I would have to send her all documents. 

It was clear to me that the mother would see this as an opportunity to disrupt travel plans for my daughter and I shared my concerns with the State Department.  However, there was apparently no chance to make an exception.

In accordance with the State Department's guidelines, I sent all documents to the mother and requested that she would apply for the U.S. passport, confirming that I would pay for all fees including any express service fee.  As expected, the mother did not do anything and my attorney in Brazil told me that she was delighted when she heard that I was unable to apply for my daughter's U.S. passport in the U.S. and that I would depend on her cooperation.

The mother has now everything in her hands, my daughter, my child support payments and all documents necessary for the issuance of the U.S. passport.  With no cooperation, I will have to go back to the Brazilian court to request that the Brazilian judge makes the mother go to the U.S. Consulate to apply for mu daughter's U.S. passport.  That will take several weeks or months, my daughter's next school vacation will be in Jul-2011.

I was very happy when the State Department/U.S. Consulate visited my daughter back in 2005/06 and send me the only photos of her in those years, I am deeply thankful for they help in this situation.  Meanwhile, the current guidelines to issue a U.S. passport for an abducted U.S. child do not seem helpful, they actually shift power to the abducting mother, they cost me additional $$$ (I have burned through $75k and counting) and most importantly, they delay my daughter's return to the U.S.

This barrier of issuing a U.S. passport was least expected after 06 years in U.S. and Brazilian courts, it kinda knocked me down, but I am getting up again and will overcome this "internal" hurdle as well.  I remain confident to have my daughter back in the U.S. in Jul-2011, even if I have to go through more court hearings in Brazil related to the application of the U.S. passport.

It remains the gut feeling that this last (?) problem was not necessary.  I hope guidelines for issuance of U.S. passports can be adjusted for abducted U.S. children, so other LBP's do not have to experience the same frustrations in the future.

Kind regards,

Klaus


Offline sue

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2010, 03:05:55 PM »
There is no excuse for this.  I am sorry and I do hope for a speedy resolution.

Offline liesl78

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2010, 04:01:48 PM »
Klaus, I am FUMING here.   :madgo :madgo :madgo

I guess that will mean any LBP that wins a return order will have to go through the same BS? This is so unfair!!!!
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Offline JuliRosi

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2010, 04:21:03 PM »
I am so sorry for you, Klaus. I hope that you can resolve the problem soon!

Offline Bree

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2010, 05:08:48 PM »
I'm fuming too!  :madgo

Unreal that they would put the ball in the abductors court and expect her to do the right thing.  If she hasn't done the right thing in all these years, then why do they think she would start now?  Can your Congressman contact the State Department and ask them WTH is up with this?  Exceptions need to be made for abducted children that are to be repatriated.  It's not like you are requesting it to abduct her.

Hopefully this will be resolved soon...another 6 months is ridiculous!
"Every parent who has a child and they tuck him in at night, or her in at night, and they wish the best and only the best and they will always protect the child and do whatever they can, but most of the time they don't have to prove it. I'm in the proving grounds, to myself and to my child.  I have to get him home and I will do whatever I have to. I'll never stop to save him."  --David Goldman

Offline FC_Florida

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Re: Ruling in my case?
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2010, 05:12:29 PM »
Klaus, I am FUMING here.   :madgo :madgo :madgo

I guess that will mean any LBP that wins a return order will have to go through the same BS? This is so unfair!!!!

Unreal...I'm very sorry, Klaus.
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