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Author Topic: Hague Return Overturned  (Read 13176 times)

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Offline sue

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2010, 10:03:15 AM »
I'm so sorry Carlos. 

Offline cm

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2010, 10:27:30 AM »
(((Carlos)))

First of all, Sage is a lucky little guy to have you! Your wisdom, strength and courage abound with the love you have for your son. I pray that you and your son will be reunited and all of this turmoil will soon become a faded memory.
"When you come to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on. "  ~ Franklin D. Roosevelt

Offline JamesJosephs

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2010, 11:43:35 AM »
(((Carlos)))

First of all, Sage is a lucky little guy to have you! Your wisdom, strength and courage abound with the love you have for your son. I pray that you and your son will be reunited and all of this turmoil will soon become a faded memory.

Amen.

Offline liesl78

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2010, 07:38:26 PM »
Carlos,

My heart broke when I read this. I'm really sorry!!!
Sending you a big [[[hug]]]. Hang in there!
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Offline Bree

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2010, 09:50:14 PM »
I'm sorry to read this, Carlos!  Don't give up (I know you won't).  Sage is lucky to have you for his Dad.  I keep hoping that his mother/abductor will one day wake up and realize that Sage needs both of you in his life.  She needs to stop being selfish and allow him to know you.

My son is adopted and I'm still in contact with his birth mom.  I send her updates and photos; I feel it's the least we can do.  I can not imagine what goes through your ex's mind to make her think that Sage is more of her "possession" than he is yours.  It took both of you to make Sage and both of you should have the pleasure of watching him grow.

I will pray that someone in Mexico wakes up and does the right thing for you and Sage. 
"Every parent who has a child and they tuck him in at night, or her in at night, and they wish the best and only the best and they will always protect the child and do whatever they can, but most of the time they don't have to prove it. I'm in the proving grounds, to myself and to my child.  I have to get him home and I will do whatever I have to. I'll never stop to save him."  --David Goldman

Offline Diane

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2010, 01:18:37 PM »
Since the Mexican courts came up with the insane decision to let my grandson Sage testify on his own behalf,  I have tried to come to terms with this.   I have attempted to find the words to comfort my son Carlos for the pain, anger, and total frustration he is experiencing. How can you begin to explain the stupidity of three judges agreeing to have a child abducted, before he could talk, giving testimony as to where he chooses to live and with which parent.

The interesting thing is that they would try to use the length of the separation as grounds for parental alienation, but the two times Carlos was able to see his son, after months of separation, and in the stilted atmosphere of the courtroom, it took less than a couple of minutes for him to go from shy and tentative to, having a huge smile and total happiness, when he saw his dad.   In fact, if you studied the dozens of pictures of Sage from birth,  you will find the happiest expressions and total joy were all taken when his father was present.   

I want to thank everyone here for their support for Carlos and all the other parents going through the hell of having their children abducted.   It is your support that just might get these parents through this nightmare.

I want to add my contempt for all the politicians, and the state dept. for their terrible record of impeding, indifference, and lack of concern for this countries abducted children.   I know that Carlos will never give up and I hope together we can bring about miracles in passing legislation and changing the outcome for all abducted children from and too every country.   Thank you all,   Diane


Offline FC_Florida

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2010, 04:39:38 PM »
Carlos, Diane, I am really sorry to hear the bad news from Mexico. We know you won't give up on Sage. Hoping for a favorable turn of events before this nonsense hearing takes place. Stay strong!
* FC_Florida *

Offline UD_student

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2010, 05:07:33 PM »
Carlos and Diane-I just got back from being away (again) and I am quite saddened to hear this sad turn of events. I think everyone else has eloquently expressed my sentiments already. Please let us know if there is anything specific we can do to help you. You all continue to be in my thoughts and prayers.

Offline kmoor88

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2010, 12:15:29 PM »
Carlos and Diane,
I was very saddened and heart broken for you and your family to hear this news. Is there anything we can do to help you with your case? I will never understand how a parent can do this to their child and sleep at night. I know you will never give up on Sage. Sage is very lucky to have a Dad like you. One day he will be so happy to be with his Dad and Grandma who truly love him.

Offline SageDad

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2010, 03:02:11 PM »
Thank you all for your concern and kind words.  I feel truly blessed to have the support, thoughts and prayers of so many compassionate and caring people.

Late last week we obtained a copy of the full decision of the Mexican high court.  This marks the end of the seventh trial in Mexico to date.

This most recent decision was to be the final decision in the Hague case for my son’s return.  However, rather than issue an actual verdict that brought the case to a close they have declared what amounts to a mistrial.  This decision was not based on any argument that my wife made in opposition to Sage’s return, but rather, the result of a Mexican court principle called “suplencia de la queja” which basically translates to “expansion of the complaint” (where, in this context, my wife is the one filing the complaint against the return order.)  Suplencia de la queja is a legal principle that courts can apply in cases related to children.  It’s a tacit acknowledgement that none of the grievances listed in the complaint are valid, but the court can amend the compliant to add what, in its own opinion, is a valid grievance that should have been added.

The courts decision was that, during the family court trial and subsequent State level appeal, the public prosecutor did not do enough to adequately represent Sage’s interests independently of that of his parents.  Hence, while not a lack of representation independent of his parents, they have declared my son’s own representation insufficient and have ordered a “do over” if you will.  In doing so, Mexican courts have (shockingly I know) perverted the spirit of the Convention, and established a system where denying the return of children is the rule rather than the exception.  In international abduction cases they consistently construe any procedural problems as a violation of children’s rights, and a basis for effectively denying the return of children.  In this case they (officially) refused to consider any part of the nearly two foot thick case docket generated over the course of two years on the actual merits of the case in question in lieu of fixating on procedural questions that are used as a backdoor justification for enforcing the universal presumption that children abducted to Mexico are not to be returned.

While ostensibly protecting the child’s best interests by protecting their alleged procedural rights they refused to (officially) consider the substantive questions at hand in the holistic manner that any real consideration of a child’s best interests demands.  In overturning two years of litigation, on little more than a technicality, they didn’t bother to (officially) consider whether the alleged procedural violation would have changed the resulting decision in any way shape or form.  It seems that to Mexican courts returning a child to the United States is analogous to incarcerating a criminal in the United States.  The child should not be returned (incarcerated) unless all the proper procedures are followed precisely.  Because, of course no alleged criminal (abducted child) should be deprived of their freedom (returned to their home country) unless we have proven their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and in accordance with full due process.  In the US criminals are presumed innocent until proven guilty and in Mexico abducted children are presumed to be better off with their Mexican kidnappers until proven otherwise beyond a reasonable doubt and in accordance with every procedural law imaginable. 

It is no coincidence that Mexico is a world leader in child abduction or that, in spite of being a Hague Convention signatory for 20 years that has heard thousands of Convention cases, there is almost no federal case law or jurisprudence on the substantive issues of the Convention’s operation in Mexico.  It would seem easier for a rich man to get into heaven than for a child to be returned from Mexico.  Incompetence and ignorance (if not outright corruption) in Mexican courts has been repeatedly demonstrated in studies by independent NGO’s, the United Nations and the US Department of State for decades but, nonetheless, they have set for themselves an impossibly high standard of excellence and perfection before the high courts will even consider the merits of a Hague Convention case.  Procedural problems are always found while core Convention issues are routinely pushed aside.  Left behind parents are forced to walk a camel through the eye of a needle located in a foreign country before they can even get Mexican federal courts to make a decision on the merits of a Hague case and, unsurprisingly, the efforts of victimized parents almost always collapses under the spiritual, emotional and financial cost of continuing the litigation long before Mexican federal courts are satisfied that the procedures used by their state and local courts have adequately addressed all the procedural rules – with new ones being invented all the time due to the “special nature” of international cases.

Leaving aside the prior decision and the ostensible logic behind it, I have come to terms with the inescapable reality it demonstrates.  Had my wife presented a valid argument that could have been used to deny my son’s return, they would have happily denied it.  When no such “exception” was accredited they sent the case back to the lower courts for an extended fishing expedition until such a legal basis can be found.  I don’t see how this decision can be reasonably interpreted in any other way.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi

Offline familygal

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2010, 01:56:32 AM »
I am truly very sorry Carlos.  I really can't fathom what happened in the Mexican courts in your case.  It is just absurd.  I just don't understand the inhumanity of their action (or inaction) while there is a young child whose life is directly affected by their further delaying resolution of this case.  You are such a loving and devoted father who does not deserve this nightmare you are in.  I wish you strength throughout this ordeal and hope that somehow things will resolve justly, if not expeditiously.  You have many people pulling for you and Sage and sending you both our prayers and well wishes.

Offline sue

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2010, 06:26:40 AM »
What is the next step for you now?

Offline SageDad

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2010, 12:15:16 PM »
Waiting for the Mexican State courts to comply with the Federal high courts demand that they allow my son's voice to be "more fully" heard by appointing, yet another, prosecutor to speak for him (ie put words in his mouth.)  Also clarifying, again, to the US State Dept. that they cannot mark this abduction case as "resolved," while also asking them to "raise the issue" of the excessive delays in my son's case with the Governor of Guanajuato (who runs the executive branch that controls the prosecutors office.) 

Mexican courts will shut down for a month soon for the holidays.  The Department of State will continue to act like callous, incompetent, bureaucrats focused on "resolving" cases.  My families lives will continue to remain in limbo while government parties pull their heads out of their collective asses long enough to profess empty plattitudes about "placing the highest priority on victimized children," before re-inserting them again in a song and dance they've performed for decades.  That is to say, the next step is pretty much just like every other step that I've taken or will take for a long time to come.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi


Offline wicasa

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Re: Hague Return Overturned
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2022, 09:49:04 PM »
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