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Offline kaykin75

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It can happen!!
« on: July 09, 2013, 11:28:44 AM »
Hi all!  I am new here...I really didn't know there was a place on the web for all of us Left Behind Parents.  I have been a LBP for over a year now.  My son went on his court ordered visit to his father's in Australia last June...I have full custody/placement.  This time his father refused to return him.  I didn't waste time when he e-mailed me telling me so.  My son was immediately placed in the NCIC database. The local district attorney's office stepped in to help.  The FBI kept me posted.  I then initiated my Hague application.  The State Department was great with helping me with all the aspects of the whole situation. But I have to say my biggest help and support came from NCMEC. The woman I deal with there has helped me EVERY step of the way.  She didn't let me get discouraged and kept pushing me forward.  I am ecstatic to write today that last week, after multiple court hearings, my son was ordered RETURNED to me!!  I am now in the process of getting a passport as I have to travel to Australia to get him...but I would walk to get him if I had too!!  So I know what you all are going through.  The sleepless nights, loss of appetite (I lost 30lbs through this), depression, confusion as to how this can be allowed to even happen.   But there is hope!!!  If anyone is going through the Hague process, especially in Australia, feel free to contact me and maybe I can help you.  God bless you all and keep up the fight...your child is so worth it!!

Offline SageDad

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Re: It can happen!!
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 03:13:08 PM »
Hi all!  I am new here...I really didn't know there was a place on the web for all of us Left Behind Parents.  I have been a LBP for over a year now.  My son went on his court ordered visit to his father's in Australia last June...I have full custody/placement.  This time his father refused to return him.  I didn't waste time when he e-mailed me telling me so.  My son was immediately placed in the NCIC database. The local district attorney's office stepped in to help.  The FBI kept me posted.  I then initiated my Hague application.  The State Department was great with helping me with all the aspects of the whole situation. But I have to say my biggest help and support came from NCMEC. The woman I deal with there has helped me EVERY step of the way.  She didn't let me get discouraged and kept pushing me forward.  I am ecstatic to write today that last week, after multiple court hearings, my son was ordered RETURNED to me!!  I am now in the process of getting a passport as I have to travel to Australia to get him...but I would walk to get him if I had too!!  So I know what you all are going through.  The sleepless nights, loss of appetite (I lost 30lbs through this), depression, confusion as to how this can be allowed to even happen.   But there is hope!!!  If anyone is going through the Hague process, especially in Australia, feel free to contact me and maybe I can help you.  God bless you all and keep up the fight...your child is so worth it!!

Hi Kaykin, welcome to BSH :) Glad to hear things have gone so well for you (and only someplace like here would we say that missing your child for only a year is a "good" result,) but I'd be careful with how far you generalize your experience overall in terms of institutional assistance and support.

If I could pick one country to have my child abducted to it would, undoubtedly, be Australia.  Australia (probably followed by the UK) is the best jurisdiction to have a Hague case heard in, and is totally unrepresentative of the vast majority of jurisdictions that hear Hague cases regarding abducted American children.

Since I'm making up my ideal child's abduction, I might as well also wish that I was the mother and the abductor were the father, or rather that I did not live in a society that is inured to the routine separation of children from fathers (even in domestic cases,) and where abductions by fathers are answered with Amber Alerts while abductions by mothers are civil issues of no interest to law enforcement (it took me numerous phone calls, visits to the Police Dept and ultimately hiring a lawyer and getting a court order before the police would, reluctantly, add my son to the NCIC database despite federal law allowing for his immediate admission.)

It's easy for both the Department of State and the NCMEC to seem, and even be, helpful, when you are a politically correct victim fighting in the most favorable jurisdiction available with the full support of your local law enforcement and District Attorney, but they won't rock the boat or call out countries who, unlike Australia, routinely sanction the abduction of children in violation of international family law and human rights treaties.  When assistance is politically correct, expedient and supportive of the status quo, State and the NCMEC can be great to work with (encouraging, helpful, informative, etc.)  If you were the mother of a child taken to a Middle-Eastern country though you very well might find the US Embassy using the US Marines to forcibly remove you and your abducted American children from the US Embassy and place you on the street... after calling the abducting Saudi Arabian father to inform him of your current location.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi

Offline kaykin75

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Re: It can happen!!
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 06:21:39 PM »
Hi SageDad....thank you for replying!  I am sorry if I came off as inconsiderate, I just wanted to let other people out there know that there is hope.  As a mother, yes I do believe things were taken more "seriously" because of my gender.  I am very sorry that you have to go through this.  I will admit, I was thankful when this started that I wasn't the father for the very reasons you mentioned.  It is very unfortunate and alarming that for no other reason than a person's gender, it seems OK for a mother to take a child but not the father. I do not know your circumstances, all I can do is post my experience.....and fortunately for my son and I it went fairly well.  I am just a thrilled mother who is finally getting her child back.  I wish you nothing but the best, and of course, the outcome you so rightly deserve.  On another note, I noticed you commented that I also posted this in another forum.  I only did that because I wanted to make sure that anyone who is in my situation could see it so that I may help.  Stay strong!

Offline dmdaven2

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Re: It can happen!!
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2013, 03:43:00 PM »
...It's not over til the wheels are up tho...good luck
Devon Davenport - Father of Nadia Lynn ;)

Offline davidbeyer

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Re: It can happen!!
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2013, 11:11:24 AM »
Silly question... but how did you convince the FBI or local authorities to prosecute? My local FBI office will not prosecute my case. Neither will the local police department. In  my research, it appears maybe 1-2% of all abductions are prosecuted. What is the difference? custody orders? father abducting instead of the mother? I am speechless. I have had to continue to try to get someone to prosecute. I am really frustrated. In the meantime, she has all the original documents so I am slowed down filing my Hague case. I have to get new copies of documents.
Thoughts?
 

Offline SageDad

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Re: It can happen!!
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2013, 12:32:27 PM »
Hi SageDad....thank you for replying!  I am sorry if I came off as inconsiderate, I just wanted to let other people out there know that there is hope.  As a mother, yes I do believe things were taken more "seriously" because of my gender.  I am very sorry that you have to go through this.  I will admit, I was thankful when this started that I wasn't the father for the very reasons you mentioned.  It is very unfortunate and alarming that for no other reason than a person's gender, it seems OK for a mother to take a child but not the father. I do not know your circumstances, all I can do is post my experience.....and fortunately for my son and I it went fairly well.  I am just a thrilled mother who is finally getting her child back.  I wish you nothing but the best, and of course, the outcome you so rightly deserve.  On another note, I noticed you commented that I also posted this in another forum.  I only did that because I wanted to make sure that anyone who is in my situation could see it so that I may help.  Stay strong!


Thank you.  I'm glad things have gone well so far and hope they continue to do so.  It's never really over until the child is actually home (and sometimes not even then.)  Enforcement of return orders can be pretty dicey in many countries too, but, fortunately, Australia tends to not be one of those countries, notwithstanding the recent enforcement problems and delays faced by a French father in Australia ( http://www.bringseanhome.org/forums/index.php/topic,4361.msg82317.html#msg82317 ) or the ineffectiveness, or unwillingness, of Australia law enforcement to locate children abducted from a Norwegian father for over 10 years ( http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/fugitive-mum-camilla-ellefsen-lunetta-free-to-leave-country/story-fnet08ui-1226631566048 )

Where your comment concerned me was where you said that State and the NCMEC had been very helpful as I think this statement, when not qualified, promotes a harmful mis-perception about the practical aspects of the way these cases are handled and play out generally.  It's amazing, but the very institution which is legally responsible for assisting in the recovery of abducted American children, ie the US Department of State, is also the single biggest, and most systemic, obstruction to American parents of internationally abducted children, because they have made the policy decision to actively hide this problem from the public to avoid such situations having any effect on bilateral diplomatic relations.  There is little chance of such diplomatic irritants occurring though in a case like yours where both countries are relatively westernized, speak the same language, have close diplomatic and economic relations, a commitment to the rule of law and have a social, political and legal culture that favors maternal custody of children.  In such circumstances advocacy simply means promoting the status quo and doesn't require the investment of any political capital or risk (indeed, in cases with politically correct victims and villians, refusing to advocate can, itself, carry political risk and require opposing the status quo.)

The fact of the matter is though, when countries steal American children it absolutely should impact foreign relations. If citizenship means anything at all it means you can count on your government to assist you when your citizen children are trapped in a foreign country. If our Foreign Service and Embassy's cannot even do the most minimal of things to advocate for and ensure the safety of America's children trapped by foreign courts claiming illegal jurisdiction over children in violation of international law and human rights treaties, they might as well be closed down to save American tax-payers the expense of maintaining such pointless institutions and infrastructure.

If you want to understand the way State handles abducted American children cases this recent youtube video, where a State Department official is asked for an opinion on women being excluded from elections in Iran, is an excellent example of State's position of having no position whatsoever and refusing to criticize foreign countries and courts or challenging the status quo in such countries in any way.  It's cheap for State Department officials to affirm values held in common by both countries.  It is cheap to stand up for fundamental rights and freedom when there is no opposition to them, but takes courage and conviction to stand up for them in the face of those who would deny them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz0qtYqTWOg

And, of course, there is this classic video of Monica Stowers recounting her experience with the American Embassy in Saudi Arabia as the American mother of abducted children:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7O37IOEinA
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi

Offline SageDad

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Re: It can happen!!
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2013, 06:12:55 PM »
Silly question... but how did you convince the FBI or local authorities to prosecute? My local FBI office will not prosecute my case. Neither will the local police department. In  my research, it appears maybe 1-2% of all abductions are prosecuted. What is the difference? custody orders? father abducting instead of the mother? I am speechless. I have had to continue to try to get someone to prosecute. I am really frustrated. In the meantime, she has all the original documents so I am slowed down filing my Hague case. I have to get new copies of documents.
Thoughts?

The State Department exerts a great deal of pressure to avoid international abduction cases being treated as criminal matters.  Criminal law is part of Public Law, which requires state intervention, and open and public hearings and trials.  They prefer that these cases be handled as "private civil matters" where politicians, the media and the public are not involved.  State actively lobbied against the passage of the International Parental Kidnapping Crime Act of 1993 and, caving to pressure by State, Bill Clinton basically eviscerated the act with this signing statement:

Quote from: Clinton's signing statement
Today I have signed into law H.R. 3378, the "International Parental Kidnapping Crime Act of 1993." This legislation underscores the seriousness with which the United States regards international child abduction. It makes this crime, for the first time, a Federal felony offense.

H.R. 3378 recognizes that the international community has created a mechanism to promote the resolution of international parental kidnapping by civil means. This mechanism is the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction. H.R. 3378 reflects the Congress' awareness that the Hague Convention has resulted in the return of many children and the Congress' desire to ensure that the creation of a Federal child abduction felony offense does not and should not interfere with the Convention's continued successful operation.

This Act expresses the sense of the Congress that proceedings under the Hague Convention, where available, should be the "option of first choice" for the left-behind parent. H.R. 3378 should be read and used in a manner consistent with the Congress' strong expressed preference for resolving these difficult cases, if at all possible, through civil remedies.

The result has been that international parental kidnapping is very rarely pursued as a crime.  Parental kidnappers are prosecuted in less than one percent of the cases where it could/should be.

The majority of international parental kidnappers are mothers (generally because the message has gotten out that they can get away with it but fathers cannot,) but the vast majority of prosecutions are against fathers.

Father's have tried filing a Writ of Mandamus to compel prosecution of parental kidnappers... more on that here:

http://www.bringseanhome.org/forums/index.php/topic,3621.msg77237.html#msg77237

Federal US Attorneys (who have "prosecutorial discretion" over these cases) do seem to be more interested in politics than they do in justice so contacting your reps in Washington may also prove helpful.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi




Online wicasa

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Re: It can happen!!
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2022, 08:58:40 AM »
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Online wicasa

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Re: It can happen!!
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 09:16:55 PM »
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