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Author Topic: Article 21... access under the Hague Convention  (Read 3819 times)

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Offline Trevor Richardson

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Article 21... access under the Hague Convention
« on: November 19, 2013, 05:54:01 PM »
What are parents experiences with "access" as allowed under the Hague Convention?  Do the courts typically allow over night stays or is just a few hours under guard supervision?  What would prevent me for taking my son home if overnight access was granted by the Mexican courts?


Seeing that my application for return is going no where and is stuck in the efficient Mexican legal system, I thought about pursuing access to my son through this route(Article 21) even though I am leery about doing this since my application for return will be terminated.  Any thoughts?
Trevor A. Richardson

Offline tweinstein

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Re: Article 21... access under the Hague Convention
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2013, 07:18:55 PM »
I cannot speak about Mexico. Carlos (SagesDad) would be the best to speak to that. However, in Brazil, where court-ordered returns are near impossible to get, I know of a few left-behind parents who found success after changing their petition from seeking a return to seeking access. I suspect that the foreign courts feel that there is a lot less to lose as the child would be staying in that country and they would not be ceding jurisdiction to another country.

Offline SageDad

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Re: Article 21... access under the Hague Convention
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2013, 02:46:43 PM »
There is nothing in the Convention that says or implies, in any way shape or form, that access and return are mutually exclusive.


You can absolutely request both under the letter and spirit of the law and, indeed, the standard form used by OCI to file a petition under the Convention allowed for just such a request to be made.


That said, as a practical matter, the court may be more leery about giving you interim access while you are still requesting a return as it implies a desire to remove the child from the country, but there is no sound legal basis for this bias (unlike the explicit pro-mother bias that exists in every one of Mexico's 30 some states and it's federal district.)


In practice though access rights under the Convention tend to be a nullity.  My son's mother skipped somewhere around a hundred court ordered visits and only had to pay a $100 or so fine one time after months and months of her flagrantly defying court orders.


One things for certain...


If you switch your case to a purely access case, OCI will mark the abduction (ie "return") case as resolved and your son will no longer appear in the non-compliance reports (which are all but worthless themselves.)  Which, of course, is the reason they like to push this "option" to LBP's... particularly those with long running unresolved cases.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi

Offline caleb

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Re: Article 21... access under the Hague Convention
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2014, 09:47:19 AM »
Send me a private message. I think we can get your child back through tijuana. Change your mentality and start thinking outside the box. You are never going to get your child through the courts. Ask Carlos and he will tell you.


Offline wicasa

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Re: Article 21... access under the Hague Convention
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2022, 09:49:56 PM »
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