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Author Topic: I am an American citizen and married to a Brasilian man (who has just told me he wants a divorce and to soon travel with our daughter to Brasil).  (Read 23153 times)

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Offline SteveW

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Listen to Roger.  Get good legal council, experienced in international family law. Make sure they understand you want to be PROACTIVE in this and then follow their advice.  
 
Cases like this are why Brazil really needs to get in step with the Hague Convention.  Someday that little girl SHOULD be permitted to visit her Brazilian family, but we know that authorities there CANNOT be trusted. :burn::mad2::madgo:

USAMom

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Quote from: roger;13995
For empathy's sake you should strive together with your husband to get the best amicable divorce deal possible.
 
And shared custody should be out-of-bounds, because Brazil has been listed as non-compliant to the Hague Convention and any professioal mediator will be sensitive to this fact.
 
I'm all for amicable settlements and I do not have even a confrontation attitude as a professional, but you must know that ENFORCING these settlements becomes way tougher than if we were talking domestic law only, either U.S. or Brazilian domestic law.
 
Brazil is not for beginners. International law is not for beginners. And family law is not for beginners. So please don't take chances...

Roger,

My husband has a ton of lawyers, including international lawyers, in his family in Sao Paulo.  I am sure he has gotten a ton of advice from everyone.  

From the time I arrived at the airport in Sao Paulo and met my inlaws right at the plane - though they had no ticket for travel - I realized very quickly that Brasil does things very differently than here in the US.

I appreciate your feedback very much.  It is a cold dose of water, yes, but it is also much-needed.

USAMom

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Quote from: SteveW;14005
Listen to Roger.  Get good legal council, experienced in international family law. Make sure they understand you want to be PROACTIVE in this and then follow their advice.  
 
Cases like this are why Brazil really needs to get in step with the Hague Convention.  Someday that little girl SHOULD be permitted to visit her Brazilian family, but we know that authorities there CANNOT be trusted. :burn::mad2::madgo:

Steve,

The sad thing is that my husband's family should get to see their granddaughter / niece/ great-granddaughter / cousin, etc. but the sad thing is that my father in law is an "authority" and he would do whatever he could to secure the happiness of his son.  I know she'd not return and that is why I can't allow it to happen, not even once.  So sad.

Offline Claudia.Hope

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Roger,
Another problem is:
IF he goes IN PERSON he could get any documment in any Brazilian Consulate, I think her jurisdiction is in Washignton (New Brazilian Consulate) but we should not be naive and think he will go there, too much obvious.
I think she needs you Roger, like counselor, mentor and lawyer:D
 
Quote from: roger;14003
But the Brazilian passport expired, so it's going to be hard to get a new one without an authorization from both parents.
 
In any case, the Brazilian Consulate with proper jurisdiction the U.S. should be immediately advised by an affidavit signed by you, in the presence of a notary public, that you do not give this authorization for the issue of a new passport, nor even for the ARB that Claudia mentioned, and much less for a trip overseas.
 
And I think you should have your daughter's U.S. passport securely stored, that is, in a safe deposit box located outside your home. But for that you'll have to seek legal advice to avoid any trouble for you.

Offline roger

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Quote from: USAMom;14006
Roger,
 
My husband has a ton of lawyers, including international lawyers, in his family in Sao Paulo. I am sure he has gotten a ton of advice from everyone.
 
From the time I arrived at the airport in Sao Paulo and met my inlaws right at the plane - though they had no ticket for travel - I realized very quickly that Brasil does things very differently than here in the US.
 
I appreciate your feedback very much. It is a cold dose of water, yes, but it is also much-needed.

I was not mentioning your husband getting proper legal advice. I meant you, and your reply just shows that you're already below par and need to step up your act.
 
I do not see this as a competition or a fight, don't get me wrong, but it will become one as soon as you are willing to take chances and your husband manages to get your daughter into Brazil - I don't care how he can make that happens, but he can always try and perhaps succeed.
 
Please get legal advice in the U.S. as soon as possible so that you and her don't get yourselves estranged from each other.

Offline Claudia.Hope

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Quote from: Bob D'Amico;14000
No better advice than Roger's BE PROACTIVE, GET A FAMILY LAWYER RIGHT NOW.
 
STAY PROACTIVE ON YOUR OWN:
1: Email is worthless!
2: "Sign an affidavit and have it legalized at the Brazilian Consulate NOT AUTHORIZING ANY TRIPS."
3: Fill out and submit all the documents for the US State Dept's Abduction unit.
4: Contact by phone and letter the airlines at your local airport notifying them of a possible child abduction. Have your daughters name put on the domestic and international NO FLY list.
5: Same goes for US Customs and Border Control.
 
People may tell you they can't help because no law has been broken but if you send a letter someone will pay attention. You need everyone to pay attention!
 
Don't become a statistic!

:yeahthat:

USAMom

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Quote from: Bree;13996
USAMom - I agree with everything said here!  Don't wait or it will be too late.  Roger has offered you some excellent advice.  
 
I do have one question:  when did your husband tell you about his sick mom?  Before or after you told him of the Goldman case?

Bree,

It happened like this:

My husband told me that he wanted to take my daughter to Brasil for a visit without me, since I don't enjoy myself when we are there.  (In other words, he doesn't enjoy himself because he does not want to translate for me. He sees me as a huge liability in Brasil, and most likely overall.)

I said no.

He'd mentioned wanting a divorce prior and did not do anything else regarding it.  He said nothing about divorce for months.  After the no from me regarding traveling to Brasil, he mentioned divorce again.

I sent him a link regarding the Goldman case, telling him that this was why our daughter was not stepping foot in Brasil.

He then told me a month or so later that his mother had cancer and that his grandfather also had cancer.  He explained he'd known about both for around 3 months prior to telling me. He gave no explanations as to why he said nothing for 3 months.  

It is a HUGE mess.  

I did speak with one of the Goldman family by phone, to let them know that David is not just helping those already in this situation.  He is also helping many avoid this situation, those of us who might have blindly allowed our children to be stolen right from underneath our noses.  I might have trusted my husband to return, though maybe in the back of my mind I would have known better and refused to give consent.  All I do know is now I will not give consent.  My eyes have been opened. And now I will be doing all I can do to stop this from happening to my daughter.

Offline roger

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Quote from: USAMom;14008
Steve,
 
The sad thing is that my husband's family should get to see their granddaughter / niece/ great-granddaughter / cousin, etc. but the sad thing is that my father in law is an "authority" and he would do whatever he could to secure the happiness of his son. I know she'd not return and that is why I can't allow it to happen, not even once. So sad.

Yes, very sad for them, that's not easy for anyone involved.
 
But it's not actually sooooo sad if you think they seem to be able to afford air tickets to visit your daughter as much as they want, in your home in the U.S., according to the custody arrangements you will reach in a U.S. court.
 
Much worse will it be if you get yourself into a position of not being able to see your daughter because a Brazilian court with no jurisdiction end up giving full custody to your husband.
 
It's really your choice now.

USAMom

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Quote from: roger;14010
I was not mentioning your husband getting proper legal advice. I meant you, and your reply just shows that you're already below par and need to step up your act.
 
I do not see this as a competition or a fight, don't get me wrong, but it will become one as soon as you are willing to take chances and your husband manages to get your daughter into Brazil - I don't care how he can make that happens, but he can always try and perhaps succeed.
 
Please get legal advice in the U.S. as soon as possible so that you and her don't get yourselves estranged from each other.

Roger,

I knew what you meant. I was acknowledging that he has probably already and will in the future have that sort of help.  I do not.  

I did meet with a divorce lawyer but she did not have any experience regarding anything to do with international law and custody in situations like that. We did talk about it but only briefly.

I don't know where in this area I can find a lawyer specializing in international law / divorce and custody situations.  Tomorrow I will call the bar association and see if they have recommendations.  

As far as the estrangement goes, his mood changes with the wind but I am not fooled.  Like you said, the evidence is in front of my face.  I do see it all but it is my first marriage and I'd hoped my only marriage.  It sucks for everyone and mostly for my daughter.

USAMom

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Quote from: USAMom;14014
Roger,

I knew what you meant. I was acknowledging that he has probably already and will in the future have that sort of help.  I do not.  

I did meet with a divorce lawyer but she did not have any experience regarding anything to do with international law and custody in situations like that. We did talk about it but only briefly.

I don't know where in this area I can find a lawyer specializing in international law / divorce and custody situations.  Tomorrow I will call the bar association and see if they have recommendations.  

As far as the estrangement goes, his mood changes with the wind but I am not fooled.  Like you said, the evidence is in front of my face.  I do see it all but it is my first marriage and I'd hoped my only marriage.  It sucks for everyone and mostly for my daughter.

I emailed all 8 consulates and received responses from a couple.  I got a phone call from one.  He was very helpful and advised me to email him and the other 7 consulates new pictures of my daughter.  I am doing so. I am also looking at getting the affidavit, starting tomorrow.

Offline Nicole's Dad

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Quote from: riceandbeans;13979
Other than the passport, no document is required to leave the US with children. The travel document issued by the Brazilian consulate is required by the Federal Police in Brazil before boarding the plane back to the US if the child holds a Brazilian passport and is accompanied by only one parent.

Sorry Rideandbeans but you are wrong. There is a requirement for a minor child traveling with one parent. The problem is that there is no enforcement of the law because it is such a grey area with law enforcement. The airlines are suppose to ask for this but a lot of times they do not because of regulations not being strong enough.
 
My advice to you USAmom is to get a lawyer NOW. Do not be intimidated by any of this and DO NOT let him take your daughter to Brazil. She will be GONE if you do!!!! I do not care if a judge says it's okay or not. File an appeal and keep filing them with evidence to show that Brazil is non-compliant with the Hague treaty until the judge gets it. I would try and find an attorney with strong family law skills and you should direct him to this website. You stand your ground and DO NOT budge.

Offline Nicole's Dad

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Quote from: USAMom;14012
Bree,
 
It happened like this:
 
My husband told me that he wanted to take my daughter to Brasil for a visit without me, since I don't enjoy myself when we are there. (In other words, he doesn't enjoy himself because he does not want to translate for me. He sees me as a huge liability in Brasil, and most likely overall.)
 
I said no.
 
He'd mentioned wanting a divorce prior and did not do anything else regarding it. He said nothing about divorce for months. After the no from me regarding traveling to Brasil, he mentioned divorce again.
 
I sent him a link regarding the Goldman case, telling him that this was why our daughter was not stepping foot in Brasil.
 
He then told me a month or so later that his mother had cancer and that his grandfather also had cancer. He explained he'd known about both for around 3 months prior to telling me. He gave no explanations as to why he said nothing for 3 months.
 
It is a HUGE mess.
 
I did speak with one of the Goldman family by phone, to let them know that David is not just helping those already in this situation. He is also helping many avoid this situation, those of us who might have blindly allowed our children to be stolen right from underneath our noses. I might have trusted my husband to return, though maybe in the back of my mind I would have known better and refused to give consent. All I do know is now I will not give consent. My eyes have been opened. And now I will be doing all I can do to stop this from happening to my daughter.

 
Stop being naive. Take a stand and who the hell cares what his family has in Brazil. This is YOUR child. Not theirs. You let her go to Brazil and you will have a very hard time even seeing your daughter.
 
GET A LAWYER AND ACT NOW!!!!!!. Get him to this website and he will have more than enough evidence to stand up and fight for you and your child.
 
Sympathy does not work in cases like this. I can promise you he will have none when he takes your child from you. Good luck and hope you do not become a statistic like ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Nicole's Dad

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If you do not act NOW, you will live to regret it. Like Roger said. He's already telling you what his plans are. Don't think for one minute that he won't do it. And don't be intimidated by his hot shot dad being a judge. Who cares. He's in Brazil.
 
If I knew in August 2006 what I know now, my daughter would still be here and not sitting down there being held illegally by a rogue country and their unruly leaders and judicial system.

Offline GEORGE GORGAS

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Quote from: USAMom;13939
My husband and I are still married and live in the same house. To my knowledge, he has not yet retained an attorney in order to obtain a divorce. Our daughter is nearly 5 years old. She has dual citizenship, both in the USA and Brasil. She had a Brasilian passport but it expired in 2008. She has an American passport -- which I have custody of.
 
My husband has been here in the US for over 12 years. He has a job that he is not ecstatic about. He recently obtained a Bachelor's Degree here in the US, which I thought was very strange because he knows cannot move up in his present job. He has -0- interest in moving (but he really does not like it here, in our state and in the US in general). Therefore, he will be making student loan payments but without the opportunity to increase his income with a better job.
 
BUT I also know that a Bachelor's Degree from the US would translate into a good job for him in Brasil if he would move there, as he already has 2 advanced degrees he earned in Brasil. Plus he would not have to worry about how to pay the student loans back. He hurried his way through as quickly as he could, finishing 9 months earlier than expected. I also thought that was odd, since he has no plans to change jobs and knows that his new degree will not help him in the least at his present employer.
 
My husband's father is a retired high-level federal judge in Brasil. He still retains much of the powers associated with his position. ( In fact, my husband's entire family is in Brasil.
 
Recently, my husband advised me that his mother was diagnosed with cancer last November. (Odd that I heard about it 3 months after the fact.) He also said that his grandfather was diagnosed with incurable cancer. He then then advised me that he was planning to take our daughter with him on a visit there. At the time, I'd barely heard about the Goldman case. As my husband and I were arguing about the fact that he wanted to take her to Brasil without me, I said, "What would be your motivation to come back?" It then hit me that he, in fact, would not come back.
 
He also took a large sum of money out of our bank account last fall, telling me that "It was HIS money and he did not need to ask permission to use it, or to tell me what he was doing with it".
 
My husband's life in Brasil was very much like Bruna Goldman's. When he visits there, the maid takes care of everything. He does very little -- he does nothing, actually, except what he wants (which is very similar to his life here in the US, minus the maid. Or perhaps that was to be my role). I know he misses his family and his life there. He hates having a house here - home maintenance is not something he enjoys in the least. Truthfully, I cannot think of one thing he enjoys about living in the US except the fact that our daughter is here.
 
I have contacted a Brasilian Consulate and was given email addresses for them all, so that I could advise them that I DO NOT give permission for:
 
1. my daughter to travel to Brasil
2. for any Brasilian passports to be issued in my daughter's name
 
If anyone has any further suggestions / advisements, I would greatly appreciate hearing them. I would also appreciate hearing from those who have had similar experiences while being married to Brasilians, and what they did regarding their situation. Maybe it would help me to realize I am not the only one either in this kind of situation, or who has dealt with this kind of situation.
 
Sometimes I think I am crazy. He does a good job of making me feel like I am, and that I am waaaay too paranoid.
 
Thanks for your time!

 
NO No No to Travel out of the states, even if you go to brazil with him and your child he could abducted her then. dont let you child leave the USA

Offline Grace

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Quote from: USAMom;14008
Steve,
 
The sad thing is that my husband's family should get to see their granddaughter / niece/ great-granddaughter / cousin, etc. but the sad thing is that my father in law is an "authority" and he would do whatever he could to secure the happiness of his son. I know she'd not return and that is why I can't allow it to happen, not even once. So sad.

I know how it is there with powerful families. They will do anything to help their kids using "influence".
 
Do whatever you can so he cannot take her without your permission. Protect yourself and her. Still, make sure your husband is really planning on that.
 
It seems he has some bitterness towards the US and his life here, like he could be doing better in Brazil. Similar to Bruna's case it seems.
 
The other thing I did not like is how he left you to his own devices in Brazil. See, I was married to a Polish guy for 16 years, plus 4 years of dating. I went to Poland many times. I also did not understand the language at all. But I tried to like the place, and I enrolled myself in Polish courses.
 
When there is love, people overcome all these things. They decide jointly what is best for the FAMILY, not just for one. It seems that your marriage is on the rocks. And since you don't consider living in Brazil, then there is no hope if he wants to go back.
 
Protect yourself with documentation and the law as much as you can following everyone's advice here. Maybe you should ask him outright what what are his plans for the future. If he tells you adamatly he wants to go back to Brazil, tell him if that is the case you want to have a fair custody agreement where he can come and his your daughter. Tell him firmly her primary residence will be here in the US with you. If he shows ANY intention of makes any comments he does not like that idea, you know not to send her to Brazil for vacations until she completes 18 years of age.
 
Protect yourself the best you can, and talk to him and find out what his plan is. You may find out stuff from his body language, some people are ot good liars.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 11:11:23 AM by Grace »