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Author Topic: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments  (Read 17249 times)

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Offline dmdaven2

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2009, 04:19:44 PM »
Quote from: SteveW;16066
Part of the problem is that abductors often make a rash decision, then continue to dig themselves into a deeper and deeper hole because they can't face losing custody completely. Yes, the parent made a horrible, selfish and criminal choice, but does that neccessarily mean that the child would be better with NO contact with this parent?

Absolutely, because essentially that's what THEY ATTEMPTED to do to us, is eliminate ALL contact and didn't think twice about doing it...why do they deserve what they attempted to strip us and our children of? They don't, plus the risk of them getting in another impulsive mood and deciding to run off again is highly likely...psh, these abductors got away with it once, but never again...
Devon Davenport - Father of Nadia Lynn ;)

Offline dmdaven2

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2009, 04:22:18 PM »
Quote from: gail;16058
You don't need to get angry with me, I'm on the side of you left behind parents. But if Mexico is not a signatory of the Hague, it would be nice if the person who took the child away would come to their senses and share custody of the child.

Sorry didn't mean for the angry faces to be taken personal...shared custody is just not really a suggestion that is acceptable to some of us left behind parents :rolleyes:
Devon Davenport - Father of Nadia Lynn ;)

Offline Wendy

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2009, 06:21:01 PM »
Carlos!!  Your son is ADORABLE!!!  You must have been so heartbroken to leave him.  I have a difficult time thinking of him never seeing his mother to be honest...but at the same time I'm not sure I could take the high road and allow contact after what she's put you AND Sage through.  It's INCREDIBLY cruel to separate children from parents, particularly ones that love them so much...and it creates so much animosity and hard feelings! How are people expected to get past that for the good of the children?  It's a lot to ask...I'm not sure I could be so noble.
History has demonstrated that the most notable winners usually encountered heartbreaking obstacles before they triumphed. They won because they refused to become discouraged by their defeats.
 
~ B. C. Forbes ~
 
"It doesn't matter which way you cut this. If you abduct a child from a country and remove it from its parents, its other parent and its extended family and its culture, it is one of the most extreme forms of child abuse that you can inflict upon a child."

well said by Ken Thompson.

Offline tweinstein

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2009, 07:14:01 PM »
Quote from: carlos;16083
Admittedly, I would love to never let her see our son again as compensation for her doing this to me, but my love for my son and what's best for him is much greater than my distaste for his mother.
Wise words.:lecture:

Offline SageDad

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2009, 07:16:55 PM »
Quote from: Wendy;16104
Carlos!!  Your son is ADORABLE!!!  You must have been so heartbroken to leave him.  I have a difficult time thinking of him never seeing his mother to be honest...but at the same time I'm not sure I could take the high road and allow contact after what she's put you AND Sage through.  It's INCREDIBLY cruel to separate children from parents, particularly ones that love them so much...and it creates so much animosity and hard feelings! How are people expected to get past that for the good of the children?  It's a lot to ask...I'm not sure I could be so noble.


In the begining I was committed to not doing to her what she had done to me.  The pain and torture I was suffering was something no human should ever have to endure... not even bad ones...  As the long months dragged on though that opinion has shifted..  Even after I tracked her down, initiated Hague proceedings and brought in attorneys she continued to deny me any news or information about Sage or allow me to talk to him on the phone so we could hear each other voices... I'm sure she hoped that by holding out those things she could offer them in exchange for my signing an agreement.. Which is pure foolishness.  How could anyone sign an agreement that requires trust with a person that has no heart?  If anything it made me surer than ever that I couldn't allow her to remain in control of the decisions in my son's life.  Now it has been nearly a year...

I'm a good person but i'm no Ghandi.  It may be that an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind, but in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.  If she sees our son again once I bring him home it will be because I believe it to be in Sage's best interest and not because I care one iota to spare her the pain that she so willingly inflicted upon me

For what it's worth my lawyer has been against the idea of allowing her access from the begining and says that, without a doubt, she would abduct again if given half a chance and this time she'd know what she'd done wrong the first time.  I used to argue with him that it wasn't right to seperate a mother from her son even if she tried seperating him from his father first...  We don't have that argument anymore.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi

Offline sue

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2009, 07:30:25 PM »
Quote from: carlos;16082
Oh.. they know she's lying, but sadly that hasn't translated into them supporting me in any meaningful way. Up until now I think they've been hoping that I will give up, go away and take all my inconvenient truths with me. I won't do that and I hope they realize that sooner rather than later. To counter their effort at slandering me I created a Spanish page on Hi5 (like orkut, but hugely popular in Mexico.. link below) that contains detailed information about our story including emails she has sent, emails her friends have sent me, a detailed diary with more info than any English page I have, a pictorial and video history of our family and I have added nearly 2000 "friends" to my page from her city of about 150,000. I regularly get comments and messages of support from people in her city including some distant relatives of hers. I'm pretty sure they're mad at me now for publicly embarrassing them, but if they hadn't avoided talking to me directly to hear my side of the story or gone out of their way to defame me I wouldn't have needed to make that page.
Who cares if you embarrassed them, she took your son.

Offline janelr

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2009, 09:17:04 PM »
Hi Carlos-
Sage is absolutely adorable! I hope that you will have more extended time with him in the near future.  Hopefully the foundation will be able to help all LBPs!

J-

Never doubt that a group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

Offline Aida

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2009, 10:24:40 PM »
Sage is so beautiful. I hope you get reunited soon. I am glad you had time with him.;)

Offline dmdaven2

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2009, 10:11:54 AM »
Quote from: gail;16118
Who cares if you embarrassed them, she took your son.

 
I agree Gail and Also i advise you to make another post QUICKLY as your post number is currently 666 :eek:
Devon Davenport - Father of Nadia Lynn ;)

Offline sue

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2009, 10:15:06 AM »
Quote from: dmdaven2;16196
I agree Gail and Also i advise you to make another post QUICKLY as your post number is currently 666 :eek:
Okay, that woke me up this morning.....

Offline rachelle4

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2009, 11:54:57 AM »
Carlos, your boy is adorable! So when do you think the judge will rule on your case? Is Mexico quicker with decisions than other countries?

Offline SageDad

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2009, 02:12:35 PM »
Quote from: rachelle4;16217
Carlos, your boy is adorable! So when do you think the judge will rule on your case? Is Mexico quicker with decisions than other countries?


The family court Judge should render her decision by the end of next week.  She had 10 business days starting last friday and, in all likelyhood, will wait till the last one..  Unfortunately we'll still have to go through State and Federal appeals no matter how she decides and Mexico is not faster, but actually slower than most countries.  Without a lawyer that knows how to avoid appealable verdicts and orders these cases can be appealled about for years (even with such a lawyer it is not impossible)  We've been in family court since Sept. 08 and we are only now getting a verdict there.  The State and Federal appeals will easily add another 8 months assuming there are no unforseen delays.  My son was taken to Mexico nearly a year ago but this case is far from over..

No one should ever let a parent take their child(ren) to Mexico if that parent or the child is a Mexican citizen.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi

Offline rachelle4

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2009, 02:26:51 PM »
Carlos, shouldn't your case be in the Federal court since it is a Hague case?

Offline sue

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2009, 03:26:00 PM »
Quote from: rachelle4;16273
Carlos, shouldn't your case be in the Federal court since it is a Hague case?
I was wondering the same thing.  Are you in Family Court to get in moved to Federal Court, like David did?

Offline SageDad

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Re: Sage: Trip to Mexico - Closing Arguments
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2009, 04:59:01 PM »
Quote from: gail;16283
I was wondering the same thing.  Are you in Family Court to get in moved to Federal Court, like David did?


In Mexico Hague cases are always handled by the family court that has jurisdiction over the area that the abducting parent lives in.  Which means you are basically guaranteed to get a judge that has never heard of the Hague Convention and never handled a Hague case.  In my case my wife took our son to Salamanca, Guanajuato MX so my Hague case has been heard in the Civil/Family court of Salamanca.  We won't go to the state appelate courts until one of us appeals the decision in family court and won't go to the federal courts until one of us files an Amparo against the state appelate courts decision.  The decision that the family court judge makes is only of marginal importance.  I would like to be able to say that the family court judge, who will have the most holistic view of the entire case, decided in my favor but if she does not my appeal of her decision is guarranteed.  Likewise if she does my wife's appeal is guaranteed.  Depending on how the family judge issues her sentence I probably won't even be able to request execution of it until the appeals have been resolved, and even if the judge issues a decision in my favor that is immediately executable my wife will file an "amparo" or federal appeal against the order of execution itself.

The judicial handling of Hague cases is every bit as bad in Mexico as that of Brazil.. probably worse actually, and in Mexico we don't have the option of being represented by experienced Hague attorneys from the AGU.  One of the many sad things about these problems is that Mexico signed the Hague Convention in 1991 and has absolutely no excuse for not improving their proceedures for handling these cases whereas Brazil didn't sign the Convention until 2003.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
― Rumi