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Author Topic: Sage Bermudez Abduction Case  (Read 25938 times)

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Offline sue

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Re: Extradition can work
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2009, 04:44:36 PM »
Quote from: forthelost;43678
I just saw this, and it's more to do with Mexico than with the US. Mexican law pretty much always gives kids to the mom if there is a divorce or custody battle.
It's pretty much the mom anywhere and that's sad.

Offline forthelost

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Re: Sage Bermudez Abduction Case
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2009, 04:45:24 PM »
Can you possibly see if your son can be publically listed on the NCMEC? Quite a few Hague cases are. If he's up on the site it would help.

Offline SageDad

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Re: Extradition can work
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2009, 05:28:52 PM »
Quote from: forthelost;43678
I just saw this, and it's more to do with Mexico than with the US. Mexican law pretty much always gives kids to the mom if there is a divorce or custody battle.


I'm not convinced that one has anything to do the with the other but you may be right.  Regardless of who Mexico gives custody to the US can file international abduction charges against the abductor and request extradition.  The FBI may hesitate to do so since it is scared Mexico will not honor the extradition request and create a diplomatic mess (which would be worse than the collateral damage of a parent never seeing their child again presumably).  


Mexican law, in most states, automatically gives custody to the mother during a divorce if the child is under 7 years old.  The legal presumption is that the mother is the more fit parent, however, there are exceptions in that, if it can be demonstrated that the mother is unfit, for whatever reason, the father may be granted primary custody.  That said, Hague cases are not custody cases and a return order under the Hague Convention does not amount to a custody decision only a tacit acceptance that the child should be returned to the jurisdiction in which custody should be decided.  Additionally child abduction and/or retention is a serious crime in most of Mexico under the laws of most states and the federal penal code.  These laws do not apply for crimes that occur in foreign countries because the penal code in Mexico, with some few exceptions, only applies for crimes committed on Mexican soil.  

In theory Mexican law does allow for extradition of its citizens when the crime for which extradition is requested is actually considered a crime in Mexico (and as I stated above abduction/retention is a crime in Mexico) although I don't know of a single case where the US has requested extradition of a Mexican mother for abduction and it very may well be because they don't think Mexico will honor it based on their preference for Mexican mothers.  

I do know of a case where the FBI has at least issued a federal warrant for kidnapping against a Mexican mother though.. even if they didn't request extradition:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/parent/vera_a.htm

Kind of stupid to file "international kidnapping charges" and not request extradition of the kidnapper though...
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Offline forthelost

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Re: Extradition can work
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2009, 08:49:42 PM »
Quote from: carlos;43692
I do know of a case where the FBI has at least issued a federal warrant for kidnapping against a Mexican mother though.. even if they didn't request extradition:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/parent/vera_a.htm

Kind of stupid to file "international kidnapping charges" and not request extradition of the kidnapper though...

They did.

Mexico refused to bring her back, saying that the child was better off in Mexico since she'd been there for a year.

This even when the abductor's mother and twin brother both begged the government to bring her back to the US.

Go figure.

Offline SageDad

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Re: Extradition can work
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2009, 11:58:56 PM »
Quote from: forthelost;43736
They did.

Mexico refused to bring her back, saying that the child was better off in Mexico since she'd been there for a year.

This even when the abductor's mother and twin brother both begged the government to bring her back to the US.

Go figure.


They refused extradition of the mother on the basis a year had passed or refused to return the child?  

Didier's daughter's return was denied in family court, denied in the appeals court and finally ordered in federal court via an amparo directo granted by Magistrado Castillo.  A final appeal was filed with the Supreme Court of Mexico who agreed to hear the case. Although that decision has not been formally published along with its reasoning my understanding is that they have made it known that they decided in favor of Chloe's return.  Hopefully the Supreme Court will publish a tesis in the case that can be used to help other parents in future Hague cases.. including mine which will have an amparo filed against the appeals court decision shortly.  There is remarkably little jurisprudence around the Hague Convention in Mexico in spite of the large number of children abducted there annually and courts generally have no idea how to correctly handle these cases.  Part of the problem is the vast majority of these cases never make it before a judge.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
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Offline QuenbyWilcox

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Re: Sage Bermudez Abduction Case
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2009, 08:50:09 PM »
I am going thru a custody battle over my children in Spain and get nothing but run around from the State Dept. They keep telling me that all they can do is to recommend a lawyer in Spain. I have already fired 3 who who are still advertised on the American Embassy in Spain's website and should be disbarred for what they have done to me. It amounts to nothing more than extortion. You can find details of my case by googling my name, and send any journalist you know there pls.
However, PLS. GO TO http://www.stopthetortureandgenocide.blogspot.com/ copy, sign and send the letters that I have written to your Reps in Washington, DC and to whom they are addressed. And, pls. pass this on. Perhaps, if those in DC recieve enough they will start reading their mail.

Offline SageDad

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Re: Sage Bermudez Abduction Case
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2009, 10:46:30 PM »
Quote from: QuenbyWilcox;45013
I am going thru a custody battle over my children in Spain and get nothing but run around from the State Dept. They keep telling me that all they can do is to recommend a lawyer in Spain. I have already fired 3 who who are still advertised on the American Embassy in Spain's website and should be disbarred for what they have done to me. It amounts to nothing more than extortion. You can find details of my case by googling my name, and send any journalist you know there pls.
However, PLS. GO TO http://www.stopthetortureandgenocide.blogspot.com/ copy, sign and send the letters that I have written to your Reps in Washington, DC and to whom they are addressed. And, pls. pass this on. Perhaps, if those in DC recieve enough they will start reading their mail.


I'm sorry your experience with the State Dept. was not a better one.  They have a very hands off approach to addressing family matters with international dimensions.  The US Embassy in Mexico also refused to attend the hearings in Mexico for my son's abduction, even though I asked them to please observe them as non-partisan witnesses to demonstrate to the courts that the US has a real interest in seeing justice served.  

I deplore domestic violence and crimes against women.  I read some of that blog and various other forums and pages where you have information, though I must admit it's still not clear to me what you hope to acheive.  Are you trying to get back your kids or just wage a campaign against domestic violence?  I, like most in these forums, believe a child should have both of his parents.  Many of us here have ex-wives and girlfriends who did not think that was important and viewed their children as their own personal property to do with as they saw fit and took our children to foreign countries.  A large majority of child abductors are women, and many of these women go on to make false allegations of domestic violence in an attempt to justify their kidnapping.  We both agree that domestic violence is a horrendous and evil crime.  As such I think we should both be able to agree that false allegations of such crimes to steal children is just as vile if not more so.  In reading your blog my initial impression is that you seem to be a missing a critical part of the equation.  You fairly accuse law enforcement, the judiciary and the men who are violent but you are duplicitously silent on all the women who dishonestly make claims of domestic violence during custody and abduction proceedings.  These false claims cause police and courts to view the claims of woman who are actually abused with skepticism and doubt and hurt your stated cause every bit as much as the judges and police who ignore your claims.  I do not think it unreasonable to say that for every 1 women who is caught making false accusations of rape, abuse or violence, there will be 10 men who walk free from true allegations because the police and courts involved will remember the lies of the one woman who was dishonest.  Even when these false allegations are utterly and completely disproven the women who make them are very rarely held accountable for it.

This thead is for my son's abduction to Mexico by my wife.  I do not want it turned into a debate on domestic violence and I hope that if you wish to continue this discussion we can do it in a different thread.  In closing, I submit for your consideration the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgxwPU0W-Wg
“What you seek is seeking you.”
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Offline sue

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Re: Sage Bermudez Abduction Case
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2009, 09:49:56 AM »
Carlos, what's new with your case?  Have you been able to talk to your son on the phone?  And why did the US Embassy refuse to sit in?

Offline SageDad

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Re: Sage Bermudez Abduction Case
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2009, 05:15:01 PM »
Quote from: gail;45047
Carlos, what's new with your case?  Have you been able to talk to your son on the phone?  And why did the US Embassy refuse to sit in?


We're hearing a new appeal now.  My wife is claiming Sage didn't have the chance to have his opinion heard and was not adequately represented during the proceedings.  That is the whole of her appeal.  She could argue any one of many things during the appeal to try to get the return order over-turned but she's trying to get the whole case to start over.  Abductor's should want a final decision so that their children's life and future is not in limbo and if their child is returned it is sooner rather than later since the longer they are illegally retained the harder the transistion will be when they come home, but far too often they only seek to delay as long as possible.

I have gotten some pictures in the last few months.  My wife twice sent me photos after I called asking her to.  Once were pictures of his b-day.  The other were pictures of him in some restaurant.  Ussually when I ask for pictures she tells me she is too busy and has to spend every second of every day taking care of Sage since he has so much energy.  I get very little real news on how he is or what he's doing.  The only thing she really tells me about him is that "he is doing perfect" and "he is very happy" and has lots of friends.  These are things I can't believe, not because they're not possible, but because I question anything she says.  If my son were sad or sick she wouldn't tell me.  She hopes I will give up fighting to bring him back and thinks that telling me he is perfect in Mexico will help me do that.. but it won't.  I will never give up.  When I ask her to put him on the phone she says he is too hyper and doesn't like the phone.

I last talked to her about two and a half weeks ago and her attitude has changed considerably.  Before the court ruled against her she was very arrogant and would tell me that if I wasn't calling to sign her agreement that I should never bother calling again.  I don't think she ever considered losing in court as a real possibility.  She thought that being a Mexican mother would trump anything and everything and it doesn't -- at least not when these cases get into the higher courts.  The family court judge was willing to ignore all the evidence, logic and the law and deny my son's return but if she thought the case would end there she was, once again, being hopelessly naive.  I knew we were going to the supreme court from the begining and knew no matter how the lower judges decided my son wouldn't come home before then as any order to return him would just be suspended.

I think she now seriously considers losing a real possibility.  My lawyer and I have been dumbfounded this whole trial about how poorly her and her lawyers handled this case.  It is clear they never thought they could lose.  My wife has lied repeatedly and obviously but she has always told the wrong lies.  The biggest of which is that I gave her permission to go to Mexico and she proves this by showing a notarized permission slip for a trip that occurred 8 mos prior to the abduction and clearly says it's for a 2 mo. tourist visit, but then she admits she is keeping Sage in Mexico without my permission.  In all this time they've never seemed to understand that none of the kidnapping laws makes a distinction between an abduction and an illegal retention.  Ironically the appeals court accepted all the lies she's been telling as the truth.. and then said the child needs to be returned.  Which is exactly what I've been saying.   She's telling the wrong lies and even if the court were to accept them all, in spite of all the evidence, they don't amount to a Hague defense under which return can be denied.  She fought a custody case and not a Hague case even after I told her many times that it was not a custody case... but she has always ignored me when I tell her something that goes against what she wants.  She doesn't let small things like reality or facts get in the way of her world view. :nixweiss:
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Offline ananddad

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Re: Sage Bermudez Abduction Case
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2009, 05:28:06 PM »
Quote from: carlos;45442
... but she has always ignored me when I tell her something that goes against what she wants. She doesn't let small things like reality or facts get in the way of her world view. :nixweiss:

Come on Carlos, talk about your wife. Stop talking about my son's mom:) My son might get offended.
"In the end, everything will be okay. If it's not okay, then you have not reached the end." -- Unknown.

Offline sue

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Re: Sage Bermudez Abduction Case
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2009, 01:12:56 PM »
What do you think she will do when they finally order his return?(no more appeals).  She doesn't sound like the smartest duck in the pond, sorry.  Will she come back with him or will she take off?  I do think that Mexico will try and will find her if she does and send her back with your son.  I just don't understand the thinking behind a woman doing this.

Offline SageDad

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Re: Sage Bermudez Abduction Case
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2009, 01:29:59 PM »
Quote from: gail;45558
What do you think she will do when they finally order his return?(no more appeals).  She doesn't sound like the smartest duck in the pond, sorry.  Will she come back with him or will she take off?  I do think that Mexico will try and will find her if she does and send her back with your son.  I just don't understand the thinking behind a woman doing this.


I've often wondered what she will do when the legal games end.  She is lazy and spoiled so a life on the run or in hiding is one that suits her very poorly.  When the highest court in Mexico orders my son returned home the US State Dept. and USDOJ will have no further excuses to stonewall or ram the Hague Convention down my throat.  Mexico will enforce a return order if there is political and legal pressure for them to do so and there is someone willing to pay the "mordidas"  Mexican law enforcement can be very effective with the proper motivation -- and I will make sure it's there.  Other countries will not afford her all the legal channels to delay that she currently enjoys in Mexico as a citizen.  They will happily deport or extradite her.  I have also laid out several plans of actions that I will take in the event that she refuses to comply with a final return order.  It would be a terrible idea for her.  I started to explain some of this to her the last time I talked to her and she got very agitated.  She said she would never do that, that she was not a criminal and would not make her son live like one.  She also said that even if/when she has to come back she has already spoken to a US family law attorney who told her she could still win custody here :)
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Offline tweinstein

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Re: Sage Bermudez Abduction Case
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2009, 01:34:36 PM »
Quote from: carlos;45560
She also said that even if/when she has to come back she has already spoken to a US family law attorney who told her she could still win custody here :)
There will always be attorneys who, as long as the client is paying, will say whatever they want to hear;).

Offline SageDad

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Re: Sage Bermudez Abduction Case
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2009, 01:36:35 PM »
Quote from: tweinstein;45561
There will always be attorneys who, as long as the client is paying, will say whatever they want to hear;).


Yep :D
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Offline sue

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Re: Sage Bermudez Abduction Case
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2009, 10:14:28 AM »
Quote from: tweinstein;45561
There will always be attorneys who, as long as the client is paying, will say whatever they want to hear;).
Isn't that the truth.