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Author Topic: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???  (Read 38769 times)

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Offline hatufim.org

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I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« on: April 23, 2009, 06:27:54 PM »
I think I may have won my Hague case (see www.hatufim.org), at least the first round. Here is the story:
 
I got an email on April 1, 2009, from Brazilian officials handling my case saying: "Your Hague application was analysed by the Attorney General’s Office and a petition was filed at the Federal Court in Sao Paulo. Meanwhile the case is undergoing judicial proceedings and a preliminary decision was issued..."
 
So I requested to have a copy sent to me of the petition and of the preliminary Court decision. I was told they could only send me a copy of the petition (but not the decision) through the US State Dept.
 
So far, the US State Dept has failed to confirmed that they have received any such documents from Brazil. They have a copy of the email, they called them, nothing. The interesting thing is that in the past the US State Dept had informed me that Brazil had ignored my Hague application and that they would not be returning my children.
 
So, I am confused, and have a few questions:
 
1.- Has this ever happened to anyone else here?
 
2.- What does this mean? First they tell me that a preliminary decision was issued, and then, they do not want to send it to me???
 
3.- How can I get a copy of this Federal Court decision?
 
I assume that the reason they do not want to send me a copy of the court decision is because it's in my favor. What do you think?
 
Thanks!

Offline tweinstein

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2009, 07:04:43 PM »
Can you contact the attorney directly? My concern is that if the ruling was now 3 weeks ago, your children's mother has already filed an appeal. This doesn't make much sense.

Offline SageDad

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2009, 08:10:33 PM »
How incredibly frustrating...  It's one thing to wait the huge periods of time for anything to happen in these cases.. but having to wait weeks or months to even hear what has happened is totally unacceptable.. though no surprising... Why is OCI not able to give you such basic information on your case?  Actually nevermind, I know why...  One of the good things about having a private attorney are that I don't have to deal with any of that BS.  When something happens in my case i'm one of the first to know about it.  I almost always know before the Central Authority of Mexico or the OCI's knows.

I'm assuming the AGU is representing you in Brazil, can you contact them directly?
“What you seek is seeking you.”
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Offline André Felipe

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 08:32:49 PM »
a preliminary decision favourable to you... that´s very unusual, and a very good signal.

I think you should contact AGU to know better what´s happening.

I don´t know how things works in Sao Paulo´s Federal Court, and how they contact foreigner people who is not envolved directly in the proceeding and doesn´t have private attorney, but I think they could at least say to you if it was favourable or non favourable.

Peharps São Paulo´s Federal Court shows, in its website, about the decision, if you have the proceeding number. Or give it to me and I will see in the website if it´s possible.

Offline Sashia

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2009, 09:54:07 PM »
That's a wonderful and promising sign, but, being the pessimist or shall I say Devil's advocate, I wonder if some movement on other cases, ANY movement on other cases, even if it's in circles, would give the watching world the idea that maybe Brazil was going to get it act together and start following the Treaty's protocols?.....I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but they are in GREAT NEED of a PR boost, and possibly the appearance of complying, even if it's NOT in the Goldman case might bring them some POSITIVE publicity???? What do you think?

Offline André Felipe

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 10:07:30 PM »
I don´t know sashia...usually judges don´t bow to the press and public opinion (national or international) but that is a possibility.

Offline Sashia

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 11:24:44 PM »
Then in the spirit of positive energy, I'm going to assume that the people handling the case truly intend to stick to the Hague as it was written and that soon, very soon, you'll have those 3 wonderful kids back home with you.

Offline dmdaven2

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 11:49:51 PM »
Quote from: hatufim.org;19312
I think I may have won my Hague case (see www.hatufim.org), at least the first round. Here is the story:
 
I got an email on April 1, 2009, from Brazilian officials handling my case saying: "Your Hague application was analysed by the Attorney General’s Office and a petition was filed at the Federal Court in Sao Paulo. Meanwhile the case is undergoing judicial proceedings and a preliminary decision was issued..."
 
So I requested to have a copy sent to me of the petition and of the preliminary Court decision. I was told they could only send me a copy of the petition (but not the decision) through the US State Dept.
 
So far, the US State Dept has failed to confirmed that they have received any such documents from Brazil. They have a copy of the email, they called them, nothing. The interesting thing is that in the past the US State Dept had informed me that Brazil had ignored my Hague application and that they would not be returning my children.
 
So, I am confused, and have a few questions:
 
1.- Has this ever happened to anyone else here?
 
2.- What does this mean? First they tell me that a preliminary decision was issued, and then, they do not want to send it to me???
 
3.- How can I get a copy of this Federal Court decision?
 
I assume that the reason they do not want to send me a copy of the court decision is because it's in my favor. What do you think?
 
Thanks!


Well the key word is preliminary...

so that's not an official decision
Devon Davenport - Father of Nadia Lynn ;)

Offline hatufim.org

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2009, 12:06:40 AM »
Quote from: André Felipe;19325

I think you should contact AGU to know better what´s happening.

Peharps São Paulo´s Federal Court shows, in its website, about the decision, if you have the proceeding number. Or give it to me and I will see in the website if it´s possible.

So far, I have not been able to get a copy of this document, I don't know the number. Is it possible to find it by family name?
 
What's the website of the Sao Paulo Federal Court?
 
Thanks!

Offline hatufim.org

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2009, 12:15:18 AM »
Quote from: tweinstein;19315
Can you contact the attorney directly? My concern is that if the ruling was now 3 weeks ago, your children's mother has already filed an appeal. This doesn't make much sense.

I have never spoken to the AGU, I don't have their phone number. I don't even know who to ask for.
 
Maybe the reason they are not sending me the documents is to give her time to file an appeal? But in any case, from what I know, she must be given the chance to file an appeal, right?

Offline hatufim.org

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2009, 12:24:36 AM »
Quote from: carlos;19323
How incredibly frustrating... It's one thing to wait the huge periods of time for anything to happen in these cases.. but having to wait weeks or months to even hear what has happened is totally unacceptable.. though no surprising... Why is OCI not able to give you such basic information on your case? Actually nevermind, I know why... One of the good things about having a private attorney are that I don't have to deal with any of that BS. When something happens in my case i'm one of the first to know about it. I almost always know before the Central Authority of Mexico or the OCI's knows.
 
I'm assuming the AGU is representing you in Brazil, can you contact them directly?

I will try to contact the AGU or someone in Brazil again tomorrow. My children were abducted more than 2 years ago, so this news from Brazil took everyone by surprise. The US State Dept had already told me that Brazil had ignored my Hague petition and that they would not be returning my children. They asked me if I wanted to ask for visitation rights.
 
Also interesting is the fact that they (BMJ and BCA) are refusing to assist me in communicating with my children.

Offline SageDad

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2009, 02:34:18 PM »
Quote from: hatufim.org;19397
I will try to contact the AGU or someone in Brazil again tomorrow. My children were abducted more than 2 years ago, so this news from Brazil took everyone by surprise. The US State Dept had already told me that Brazil had ignored my Hague petition and that they would not be returning my children. They asked me if I wanted to ask for visitation rights.
 
Also interesting is the fact that they (BMJ and BCA) are refusing to assist me in communicating with my children.


Call the OCI and demand they give you contact info for the AGU and the BCA so you can get info on your case if they are not going to get it for you and give it to you directly.  You can also call the NCMEC and speak with your caseworker there.  They can also give you this information and are more pleasent to deal with than the beaurocratic DMV experience of talking to OCI.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
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Offline André Felipe

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2009, 05:34:07 PM »
Quote from: hatufim.org;19392
So far, I have not been able to get a copy of this document, I don't know the number. Is it possible to find it by family name?
 
What's the website of the Sao Paulo Federal Court?
 
Thanks!

oh my, you must have that number and also more contact with AGU!
 
http://www.trf3.gov.br/ , that´s the website of the Federal Court of São Paulo, but the proceeding is running under secrecy of justice, so I believe a research by the family name won´t help.
 
would help a lot a private lawyer in São Paulo...
 
she can fill an appeal against the preliminary decision, but we don´t have sure what this decisions is talking about.

Offline tweinstein

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2009, 09:43:14 PM »
I have spoken to the lead attorney at the AGU many times in the past, but all three numbers I used successfully previously didn't work when I tried them earlier this month. :nixweiss:Sorry.

Offline jdv28

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2009, 10:56:03 PM »
They didn't give you any papers from that hearing?  You got NOTHING???
Give MORE these:hug:  & LESS these :argue: