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Author Topic: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???  (Read 38836 times)

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Offline tweinstein

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #75 on: May 24, 2009, 02:42:32 PM »
Quote from: carlos;22630
There is a Hague Convention on international child support that should be used in these cases though the name of it escapes me now. Perhaps Brazil has not acceeded to it or perhaps it just ignores it like the abduction convention. It actually has been used by abductors to collect child support from LBP's in the US with the help of the OCI in the past. I'd like to think they have corrected that oversite of theirs but I'm not sure that they have.
http://www.hcch.net/index_en.php?act=conventions.text&cid=131
 
So far, the United States and Burkina Faso are the only signatories.

Offline SageDad

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #76 on: May 24, 2009, 10:05:34 PM »
Quote from: tweinstein;22638
http://www.hcch.net/index_en.php?act=conventions.text&cid=131
 
So far, the United States and Burkina Faso are the only signatories.


Ha!  I remember reading that thing a while ago when I read an article about abductors getting LBP's to pay child support and was worried my wife could try to make me pay to support her keeping my son in Mexico and not letting me see him... Safe to say that's a fairly useless convention for the time being though.  There is a site that lists the countries which have specific bilateral child support agreements with the US here There are only 15 of them and neither Brazil or Mexico is one of them.  Still there are various other generic (not child-support specific) conventions that can be used to collect civil damages internationally.

I've never heard of LBP's that go to Mexico getting jailed for child support..  I don't really understand how it happens in Brazil.  In order for child support to be charged a custody hearing must take place and the Hague Convention says all custody proceedings must be suspended until the Hague case has been decided.

As an interesting side note the family Judge that heard my Hague case ordered me to pay all my wife's legal fees in contesting the Hague case under some Mexican civil code for the losing party in civil cases.  Only one of many mistakes she made.

Article 26 of the HC states (in part):

Upon ordering the return of a child or issuing an order concerning rights of access under this Convention, the judicial or administrative authorities may, where appropriate, direct the person who removed or retained the child, or who prevented the exercise of rights of access, to pay necessary expenses incurred by or on behalf of the applicant, including travel expenses, any costs incurred or payments made for locating the child, the costs of legal representation of the applicant, and those of returning the child.

There is no provision for the abducting parent to charge the LBP their legal fees in a Hague case.  I'm curious to know how much she claims to have spent in legal fees though, unfortunately, despite telling me I had to pay them the judge never said what they were.
“What you seek is seeking you.”
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Offline sue

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #77 on: May 24, 2009, 10:26:27 PM »
I would not pay a damn thing to anyone who abducted my child.  And I'm sorry Andre, but the judge obviously knows that the mother is at the very least being accused of abducting Twienstein's children.  A judge would ask "where is the father and why isn't he here"  "has he been notified", all of that I'm sure should be asked.  I've been through a divorce and the child support thing and none of this would ever happen here in the US.  I'm not saying we are perfect, far from it, but safe to say nothing like this is going to happen.  It is a safe haven for child abductors and something has got to be done about it.  They have signed onto the Hague Convention, now they need to act on it and send these children home within the 6 week time frame.

Offline hatufim.org

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #78 on: June 02, 2009, 06:18:39 PM »
Great news today with the return of Sean Goldman to his father David. I hope this is a sign of good things to come. It has given me new hope in being able to recover my 3 children from Brazil. I hope this website and forum stay on, to continue helping all left behind parents in recovering their abducted children.

Offline sue

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #79 on: June 02, 2009, 06:23:52 PM »
Everytime I am out running around I seem to see a "Chabad", it makes me cringe.  My husband says it's a scary bunch.  I told him about your case, awful.  Has anything new happened?  I suppose I should have put that under your thread?

Offline sue

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #80 on: June 02, 2009, 06:28:59 PM »
Quote from: Bindlerkids;25007
What is a Chabad?? forgive my ignorance is it some religion group?
Radical Jewish group.

Offline hatufim.org

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #81 on: June 12, 2009, 03:42:33 PM »
Quote from: Dan_Plainview;22363
Even if it is hard dealing with the DoS-OCI, you need to persevere... Their job is to shake the information out of the BCA/ AGU...
 
The BCA/ AGU did you wrong. 20 months is at least twice as long as anything else I have heard. They are your Attorney (not actually your Attorney but work with me). The Brazilian Federal Court has not done you wrong, yet. Their response to the AGU's filing was typical. All they said was "wait, let's hear the taking parents side to make sure there is aren't any grave risk concerns". Effectively, they agreed in part to the AGU's assertion that:
 
1) Florida is the "habitual residence"
 
2) That you were asseting your custody rights when the children were wrongfully rmoved.
 
Be angry with the DoS-OCI, but continue to badger them and be professional... Be angry with the AGU for taking so long ... but now they are fighting for your cause and from what you say they seem to be representing you well at this point... The Federal Court in Sao Paulo has not wronged you, yet... I would stop initiating mediation with the TP...

Last week I receive another copy of a filing by the AGU about a month after it was filed. A few pages were missing. My favorite quote in that document was: "Everything that Smadar Hameiry has told us from the beggining of the process has been proven to be a lie." Several examples are mentioned: (a) That she said she left Florida because her visa had expired, but it was proven that was false, (b) that she did not participated in the Florida divorce, when she had a Florida attorney representing her, and (c) that she stated that the marriage ceremony took place in the Brazilian Embassy in Tel Aviv, when in reality it took place in Jerusalem, Israel.
 
This week there were interesting developments. On May 15, 2009, I made the proposal that maybe the children should move to Israel... On Monday, June 8, I get a phone call at almost 5pm from the person handling the case at the US State Dept, saying that I need to send her an email saying that I accept the proposal and that the children will be moving from Brazil to Israel. But that I must send her an email within 30 minutes, saying that I give my permission that my children travel to Israel. So I told her that I want to see everything in writing before I send any emails, and that I do not understand why after ignoring my case for more than 2 years, suddenly I'm being told to send an email within 30 minutes. She responded that if I do not send her this email right now, the Judge was going to deny the return of my children and that I would not be seeing them again for many years...
 
After about 30 minutes, she calls me again in desperation asking me if I already sent her this email. Again, I told her that before I respond to anything or give any authorizations to anything, I first need to know what is going on, that I want to see everything in writing, and I want to have copies of all the documents from the Brazilian Federal Court to understand what exactly is happening before I give my response to anything, and that besides, the people at the BCA are already not at the office at this time. She said that they are at the office (after hours) and they are just waiting for my confirmation.
 
A couple of hours later I sent her an email saying what I told her over the phone, that before anything is done, I first need to see all the Court documents to understand what is happening. And also that I cannot understand why they are making threats and ultimatums that if I do not reply within 30 minutes, I will not see my children again.
 
The next morning, I get an email from her (USCA) saying "Thank you for having given your authorization..." with copies being sent to the various people at the BCA and AGU. I immediately responded with several emails saying that I never gave any authorizations...
 
Then she (USCA) calls me and tells me that there was a missunderstanding and then she send me a letter that she received from the BCA, and a Court document explaining what is the situation. The day before she said she did not have those documents, but that was another lie. After reading these documents, what essentially says is that I have to give the Court permission to return the passports to Smadar Hameiry and also that would imply that the case is closed and the children do not have to be returned. Obviously, a dirty trick by the BCA/USCA in order to try to get me to drop this case. And still they are refusing to send me the Court documents.
 
The Court document also stated that I can now talk to my children over the phone at Smadar Hameiry's (her parents) house, and at the Chabad school, and the 2 phone numbers are listed. I called Smadar's house, her father answered the phone, and as soon as he heard my voice he hanged up. Then I called the school, where I was told that Smadar Hameiry had given them strict instruction to not let my children talk to me.
 
Last but not least, this Court document also implied that if I would give the Court permission to return the passports to Smadar Hameiry, that she would have complete custody over my children. And that's why she (USCA) tried to fool me into sending her this email.
 
Since I refused to approve this thing, the USCA has stopped talking to me and is not returning my phone calls or emails....
 
If anyone reading this is a Brazilian lawyer, or somehow has the opportunity to get info from the Brazilian Federal Court about what is going on with my case, or if he knows how to look at this over the internet, please let me know.
 
The case number is: Processo no 2009.61.00.055504-2 - 23a Var Federal - SP
Partes: Union X Smadar Hameiry
 
Your questions opinions and advice are always more than welcomed.
 
Thank you!

Offline Teena

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #82 on: June 12, 2009, 04:34:25 PM »
I am so sorry. I don't know how to help you. But I do want to say that what they tried to pull on you is absolutely disgusting and shameful. Also the fact that you have orders to talk to your children and they are not complying. If I were you I would contact tweinstein. He seems to be knowlegeable about these things and may be able to point you in the right direction.
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Offline Dan_Plainview

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #83 on: June 13, 2009, 11:18:37 AM »
Quote from: hatufim.org;32587
Last week I receive another copy of a filing by the AGU about a month after it was filed. A few pages were missing. My favorite quote in that document was: "Everything that Smadar Hameiry has told us from the beggining of the process has been proven to be a lie." Several examples are mentioned: (a) That she said she left Florida because her visa had expired, but it was proven that was false, (b) that she did not participated in the Florida divorce, when she had a Florida attorney representing her, and (c) that she stated that the marriage ceremony took place in the Brazilian Embassy in Tel Aviv, when in reality it took place in Jerusalem, Israel.
 
This week there were interesting developments. On May 15, 2009, I made the proposal that maybe the children should move to Israel...

To whom did you make this proposal and how? Did you make this proposal to Smadar Hameiry through DoS-OCI/ BCA/ AGU or is this more conversating through Rabbi's?

On Monday, June 8, I get a phone call at almost 5pm from the person handling the case at the US State Dept, saying that I need to send her an email saying that I accept the proposal and that the children will be moving from Brazil to Israel. But that I must send her an email within 30 minutes, saying that I give my permission that my children travel to Israel. So I told her that I want to see everything in writing before I send any emails, and that I do not understand why after ignoring my case for more than 2 years, suddenly I'm being told to send an email within 30 minutes. She responded that if I do not send her this email right now, the Judge was going to deny the return of my children and that I would not be seeing them again for many years...
 
After about 30 minutes, she calls me again in desperation asking me if I already sent her this email. Again, I told her that before I respond to anything or give any authorizations to anything, I first need to know what is going on, that I want to see everything in writing, and I want to have copies of all the documents from the Brazilian Federal Court to understand what exactly is happening before I give my response to anything, and that besides, the people at the BCA are already not at the office at this time. She said that they are at the office (after hours) and they are just waiting for my confirmation.
 
A couple of hours later I sent her an email saying what I told her over the phone, that before anything is done, I first need to see all the Court documents to understand what is happening. And also that I cannot understand why they are making threats and ultimatums that if I do not reply within 30 minutes, I will not see my children again.
 
The next morning, I get an email from her (USCA) saying "Thank you for having given your authorization..." with copies being sent to the various people at the BCA and AGU. I immediately responded with several emails saying that I never gave any authorizations...
 
Then she (USCA) calls me and tells me that there was a missunderstanding and then she send me a letter that she received from the BCA, and a Court document explaining what is the situation. The day before she said she did not have those documents, but that was another lie. After reading these documents, what essentially says is that I have to give the Court permission to return the passports to Smadar Hameiry and also that would imply that the case is closed and the children do not have to be returned. Obviously, a dirty trick by the BCA/USCA in order to try to get me to drop this case. And still they are refusing to send me the Court documents.
 
The Court document also stated that I can now talk to my children over the phone at Smadar Hameiry's (her parents) house, and at the Chabad school, and the 2 phone numbers are listed. I called Smadar's house, her father answered the phone, and as soon as he heard my voice he hanged up. Then I called the school, where I was told that Smadar Hameiry had given them strict instruction to not let my children talk to me.
 
Last but not least, this Court document also implied that if I would give the Court permission to return the passports to Smadar Hameiry, that she would have complete custody over my children. And that's why she (USCA) tried to fool me into sending her this email.
 
Since I refused to approve this thing, the USCA has stopped talking to me and is not returning my phone calls or emails....
 
If anyone reading this is a Brazilian lawyer, or somehow has the opportunity to get info from the Brazilian Federal Court about what is going on with my case, or if he knows how to look at this over the internet, please let me know.
 
The case number is: Processo no 2009.61.00.055504-2 - 23a Var Federal - SP
Partes: Union X Smadar Hameiry
 
Your questions opinions and advice are always more than welcomed.
 
Thank you!

First, I am sorry for your pain and stress. Your situation certainly is particular.

The Hague convention is there to return children to their "habitual residence" so that custody can be determined in the proper jurisdiction. They are not returning the children to you, but to the place in Florida that you are that the children are/ were adapted. As soon as you try to mediate to something other than that narrow path I am not sure the Hague applies anymore. Again, I think this is a bad idea; if you relinquish your Hague rights, they give her the Passports back, I assume she has custody in Brasil and she can travel anywhere in the world. I think you're getting bad advice and should be getting a fair shake in Sao Paulo. My 2 cents, again. My guess is that the Public Prosecutor (MPF) and Judge in Sao Paulo will look dimly on her lying ways; the truth is on your side!!

I assume the plan was that everybody goes back to Israel and custody and child support is determined anew, there? Why would she agree to that when she has not voluntarily returned to this point? Could she not have fled to Israel when she fled to Brasil? Why would she agree? Maybe to get the civil case pressure off her back?

I would stay the course in Sao Paulo trying to get the children returned to their "habitual residence" but I don't know much about what has transpired. I hope you haven't weakened your case with this mediation. Guess that was 4 cents.

You case is running under secret of justice by now, I would guess. I wasn't able to find anything here, but my Portuguese ain't so hot:

http://www.trf3.jus.br/

http://www.jfsp.jus.br/
Dan
 
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Offline sue

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #84 on: June 13, 2009, 11:35:00 AM »
Who is USCA?  And I agree with Dan, you need to keep this a Hague fight to get the children back.  Sounds like she is capable of anything and why should she go to Israel?  She won't come back to Florida, who knows what she has planned.

Offline SageDad

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2009, 05:12:03 PM »
Quote from: gail;32889
Who is USCA?  And I agree with Dan, you need to keep this a Hague fight to get the children back.  Sounds like she is capable of anything and why should she go to Israel?  She won't come back to Florida, who knows what she has planned.


The USCA is the US Central Authority or Office of Children's Issues in the US State Department.  They play lip service to supporting left behind parents but their primary goal is to "resolve" international child abductions and thereby avoid diplomatic problems with other countries (the primary goal of the State Dept is, and always has been, international diplomacy).  Actually returning children is incidental to that goal.  If pushed for clarification the OCI will admit they are not there to help left behind parents but rather to "help" the children even when that means helping the abducting parent, though "generally helping the left behind parent aligns with helping the children".  In doing this the OCI often acts as judge, jury and executioner and makes unilateral decisions, often without all the pertinent information, that can lead directly or indirectly to Hague cases being denied.  In my case they refused to release information about entry and exit records into the US for my wife and son.  By doing so they seek to ensure what they consider to be the "best interest of the child" and avoid a situation where the Mexican courts order my son's return but fail to properly execute that order (which makes for a proper diplomatic mess).  They view the child's "best interests" through the previously mentioned prism of avoiding international conflicts.  That is to say they generally view the best interests of the child as aligned with avoiding international conflicts and "resolving" cases.

If you would have agreed to allow your wife to move to Israel you would have vacated your standing as a petitioner in the Hague case and the OCI would have happily marked your case as "resolved" the next time they quietly file their Non-Compliance Report (which they only make because the Congress requires them to by law).
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Offline sue

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #86 on: June 13, 2009, 10:34:31 PM »
That's terrible.  How can they get away with trying to trick and lie to a left behind parent?

Offline hatufim.org

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #87 on: July 08, 2009, 10:36:07 PM »
Latest update on this case: Smadar Hameiry called me on Tuesday June 30, crying and begging me to give her a written authorization to allow her and the children to leave Brazil.
 
Smadar Hameiry abandoned the children in Brazil. She was calling from Israel.
 
Other people had previously told me that she had arrived in Israel around June 23rd. She told me she had already found a house in Israel and that she was now looking for a job there. In the meantime, she had obtained unemployment insurance from the government.
 
During her phone call she told me she hates Brazil, that she can't stand it anymore. She also confirmed the involvement of Chabad in this abduction by giving me specific details about what happened during the last 3 weeks she was in Florida.
 
She has been telling the children all this time that they were abandoned by their father, and now Smadar Hameiry abandons them and goes on vacation to Israel. She told me that the children have not stopped crying since she left Brazil. Obviously, first they are told that their father abandoned them, and now they feel their mother has abandoned them. This is a very cruel thing to do.

Offline Sashia

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #88 on: July 08, 2009, 11:00:19 PM »
Quote from: hatufim.org;41476
Latest update on this case: Smadar Hameiry called me on Tuesday June 30, crying and begging me to give her a written authorization to allow her and the children to leave Brazil.
 
Smadar Hameiry abandoned the children in Brazil. She was calling from Israel.
 
Other people had previously told me that she had arrived in Israel around June 23rd. She told me she had already found a house in Israel and that she was now looking for a job there. In the meantime, she had obtained unemployment insurance from the government.
 
During her phone call she told me she hates Brazil, that she can't stand it anymore. She also confirmed the involvement of Chabad in this abduction by giving me specific details about what happened during the last 3 weeks she was in Florida.
 
She has been telling the children all this time that they were abandoned by their father, and now Smadar Hameiry abandons them and goes on vacation to Israel. She told me that the children have not stopped crying since she left Brazil. Obviously, first they are told that their father abandoned them, and now they feel their mother has abandoned them. This is a very cruel thing to do.
Just MY 2 cents too, but she knows that you want the children to go to Israel. She calls you from there, you give her authorization, and she returns to Brazil, having won her case, and you no longer have any recourse. She'll never leave Brazil because it is the ONLY country that will protect her....She's LYING....

Offline noah3698

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Re: I won my Hague case!!! Now what???
« Reply #89 on: July 08, 2009, 11:32:47 PM »
Quote from: hatufim.org;41476
Latest update on this case: Smadar Hameiry called me on Tuesday June 30, crying and begging me to give her a written authorization to allow her and the children to leave Brazil.
 
Smadar Hameiry abandoned the children in Brazil. She was calling from Israel.
 
Other people had previously told me that she had arrived in Israel around June 23rd. She told me she had already found a house in Israel and that she was now looking for a job there. In the meantime, she had obtained unemployment insurance from the government.
 
During her phone call she told me she hates Brazil, that she can't stand it anymore. She also confirmed the involvement of Chabad in this abduction by giving me specific details about what happened during the last 3 weeks she was in Florida.
 
She has been telling the children all this time that they were abandoned by their father, and now Smadar Hameiry abandons them and goes on vacation to Israel. She told me that the children have not stopped crying since she left Brazil. Obviously, first they are told that their father abandoned them, and now they feel their mother has abandoned them. This is a very cruel thing to do.

Who did she leave your children with?  I think you should go to Brazil and get them.  This is horrible.  I am shocked that the State Dept. lied to you like that, really shocked.