I won my Hague case!!! Now what???

[sue]

How can they tell you to pay child support to someone who has stolen your children?  And on top of that will not allow you to see or talk with them?  What does your divorce state in the US?  What type of custody do you have and is your ex Brazilian?

[Sashia]

And of course, have made it impossible for me to visit my children in Brazil.

I don't understand. How do they make it impossible?
Aren't you still legally married? Why can't you go visit your
WIFE and CHILDREN?

[Sashia]

Never mind, I read your other post and now I understand.

[hatufim.org]

How can they tell you to pay child support to someone who has stolen your children? And on top of that will not allow you to see or talk with them? What does your divorce state in the US? What type of custody do you have and is your ex Brazilian?

The final Florida divorce judgment, done on Sept 4, 2007, gives me "sole parental responsibility" for my children. This means I have full custody of my children.
 
The reasons given are that Smadar Hameiry abducted the children to Brazil, and also that she has prevented any communication between me and my children since the abduction.
 
My ex-wife, Smadar Hameiry, was born in Israel but has a Brazilian passport. We met in Israel, got married in Israel, and all our children were born in Israel. According to Brazilian law, under these conditions, she could have not done the divorce in Brazil. The proper jurisdiction for the divorce was Florida, because we moved to Florida and lived there 8 months before she abducted the children to Brazil.
 
So I won the legal Hague case, and have full legal custody of my children. Now what?

[sue]

Can you go get the children?  With the help of the Brazilian police?  This is crazy.  The Chabad are supporting her and want your money, that's about what it sounds like.

[sue]

What does your attorney say?

[SageDad]

I am still waiting for the translation, but some very interesting facts were determined by the Brazilian autorities:
 
1.- The children were wrongfully removed from Florida.
2.- The children were wrongfully taken into Brazil.
 
The explanation given is simply that Smadar Hameiry did not have her husband's permission or the permission of the Florida Court to take the children from Florida to Brazil.
 
Also, the Brazilian authorities have determined that:
 
3.- The Florida divorce and Florida custody orders are valid in Brazil.

Someone should explain to this court that returning your children to the United States does not equate to seperating them from their mother.  She can legally enter the US and dispute custody there and make that argument in Florida.  

4.- The Brazilian divorce and Brazilian custody orders, secretly obtained by Smadar Hameiry, were obtained fraudulently, illegally, and are null and void.
 
Despite the above, the Brazilian Court says that the children cannot be separated from their mother as this may cause psychological damage to the children, and also that I should be paying child support.

See Above
 
It should be noted that no one has ever said that they want to separate the children from their mother. The objective is to allow the children to communicate with their father in addition to their mother. Also, it's more than obvious that having the children abducted is bad for the children.
 
In short, I won my Hague case, but still, there is no sign that the Brazilian authorities will return my children. Also, the Brazilian authorities have refused in assisting me in communicating with my children over the phone or internet. And of course, have made it impossible for me to visit my children in Brazil.
 
Now what am I supposed to do?

[dmdaven2]

Well...I wouldn't consider myself "winning" the Hague unless my child was sitting there with me as i wrote the title of the thread "I won my Hague case"

[SageDad]

Well...I wouldn't consider myself "winning" the Hague unless my child was sitting there with me as i wrote the title of the thread "I won my Hague case"

:yeahthat:  

Even if you win in the supreme court of a country all that means is you now have the joy of trying to get the unappealable return order enforced... and I can cite several cases where the cases stalled indefinitely at that point.

[sue]

The Florida divorce and orders are valid and yet they are saying you should be paying child support?  Is this judge on drugs?

[dmdaven2]

The Florida divorce and orders are valid and yet they are saying you should be paying child support? Is this judge on drugs?

No he was born that way...there's something in the water down there in Brazil...:conf:

[Dan_Plainview]

The final Florida divorce judgment, done on Sept 4, 2007, gives me "sole parental responsibility" for my children. This means I have full custody of my children.
 
The reasons given are that Smadar Hameiry abducted the children to Brazil, and also that she has prevented any communication between me and my children since the abduction.
 
My ex-wife, Smadar Hameiry, was born in Israel but has a Brazilian passport. We met in Israel, got married in Israel, and all our children were born in Israel. According to Brazilian law, under these conditions, she could have not done the divorce in Brazil. The proper jurisdiction for the divorce was Florida, because we moved to Florida and lived there 8 months before she abducted the children to Brazil.
 
So I won the legal Hague case, and have full legal custody of my children. Now what?

This is odd on so many levels. You really need to have this document translated by someone for whom Portuguese is their first language (not me).  What strikes me is all the family issues purported to being dealt with in Federal Court.

1) Is your wife a legal US resident or citizen? If not, then that may be a reason the Federal Court is digging their heels in. You said you were in Florida only 8 months when she left ... is she able to legally return. That's a big deal. The State might be able to help you with that if that is the reason the Federal Court is objecting. In other words, if they return your children, can the mother (taking parent) follow or are they in effect taking the children away from the mother?

2) Have you pressed to have her charged with a felony in the US? Brazilian Federal Courts are unlikely to return if the TP is facing felony charges in habitual residence. Not right, just a fact (at least concerning Brasil).

3) Federal Courts are unlikely to discuss your visitation with your children while in Brazil. My impression is that it is not their job but a job for family courts. At you Attorney's request, they may try to persuade your wife (TP) to allow you access, but nothing official. If she doesn't comply it looks bad for her, though. I'm speaking as if you were there in Brasil for a deposition and/or hearing ... as you were not it does not surprise me that they did not cover this topic as it does not seem to be what is before them (which is: jurisdictional return or not). I am not sure what vehicle or court David used to get access to Sean, recently.

4) In these cases, there is usually a Public Prosecutor (might have the translation wrong here) who advises the Judge and gives opinion representing the child(ren). In effect, he/ she is the Attorney for the child and adviser to the judge. In other words you have a Judge, a TP Attorney, the LBP's Attorney (AGU in your case, I believe) and this Public Prosecutor that represents your children's interest to the Judge. Might what you have be his/ her opinion (formal, written) to the Judge for the Judge to consider ahead of making a ruling/ decision?

5) I find it odd that they automatically assume that US judgments have validity in Brasil without going through a validation process there. All previous information I had known about required a step of validation before US judgments would be recognized in Brasil. Did the TP get legally divorced in Brasil or just document your separation? I thought she would need to wait 2 years before starting divorce proceedings (there) and then only in Brasilia. If you initiated divorce before that time and had the divorce recognized in Brazil through mirrored documents it could happen faster than 2 years. Which leads me to another question. Is your marriage certificate mirrored and children's birth certificates mirrored in Brasil? How is she able to do anything with regard to separation/ custody in family court without those? Really, she shouldn't be allowed at all or it should at least be stayed until the end of the Hague proceedings in Federal Court.

I don't know your situation but it seems very confusing. All this family related stuff: custody, child support, divorce. You really need to have any and all documents translated by someone you can trust. Once translated you should have the same or another here (again, that you trust) tell you what might be going on from a procedural standpoint. The State Dept (OCI) should be able to tell you what is going on but often times the BCA does not answer their phone calls, either. The BCA/ AGU demands that all documents coming to them be translated to Portuguese; do they do the same in return? In other words, the BCA/ AGU demands that all documents being supplied them by the DoS-OCI be translated to Portuguese; when there are decisions to be communicated back to DoS-OCI and LBPs do the translate them to English? My guess is no ... and if so, it probably takes 3 years ...

Perplexing ...

[hatufim.org]

Well...I wouldn't consider myself "winning" the Hague unless my child was sitting there with me as i wrote the title of the thread "I won my Hague case"

Well, legally speaking, I won the Hague case. The problem now is to get the Brazilian Court to order the return of the children, and then to get them to enforce that order.
 
At the very beginning, when I was looking for a Brazilian lawyer, I was told when quoted a price, that if they won the case they wanted a $20,000 USD bonus.
 
I asked them if by winning the case they mean getting the children out of Brazil, and they responded that NO. Winning the case means just that, winning the case in Court. But getting the children out of Brazil after winning the case, that's another story. And they even told me they don't think I would be able to get them out, but at least I would win the case.

[hatufim.org]

Someone should explain to this court that returning your children to the United States does not equate to seperating them from their mother. She can legally enter the US and dispute custody there and make that argument in Florida.
 
I have already sent this information to Brazil. According to all the Florida divorce attorneys I have spoken to, if Smadar Hameiry comes back to Florida with the children, the Florida Court will never separate the children from their mother.
 
If she fights for custody in Florida Court she would get anywhere between 2 to 5 days in the week with the children. That is, the worst case scenario would be 2 days in the week, the best case scenario would be 5 days in the week.
 
Nevertheless, the Rabbis I have consulted with have advised me that the best thing will be to agree with her that she has the children 5 days a week and me only 2 days a week. The Rabbis have told me that it will be best for everyone if she gets 5 days and I get 2 days a week on average with the children.
 
I have also provided this information to the Brazilian authorities, and have even made a proposal to Smadar Hameiry through the Brazilian authorities asking her if she would agree to having the children 5 days and me only 2 days in Florida, and in addition I would pay child support as established by the Florida Court.
 
Another advice given by the Rabbis is that if Smadar Hameiry wants to return with the children to Israel, that will also be acceptable, and that I should agree with her on visiting the children in Israel. In this case, I would pay child support as established by the Israeli Court.
 
In both of the above options, whether the children are in Florida or Israel, I will have to pay her child support. She will only have to agree to let me have contact with my children. The proposal has been made, and I am now waiting for a response from Smadar Hameiry through the Brazilian authorities.
 
Nobody wants to take the children away from their mother. The objective is to allow the children to communicate with their father IN ADDITION to being with their mother.
 
The Rabbis have also stated that it's very important to get the children away from Chabad, and to put them in a normal Jewish school. And the only way to achieve this is to get them out of Brazil, where Smadar Hameiry has now become dependent on Chabad in order to continue with this abduction, as she doesn't have any money to pay for school tuition in a normal Jewish school, and Chabad is letting her have the children in a Chabad school for FREE, so they can "educate" the children "the Chabad way".

[sue]

A bonus?  Our Country needs to step up and see that your children are brought home.  There is no excuse for this.  Why even spend the money and go to court the "win", if they won't send them home.  Maybe somebody should look into going after Brazil, the Country, with an attorney.