Making Some Progress

[dmdaven2]

I know a lot of people shunned me for my posts on newsweek earlier...but I seem to be the only one who's been able to get through to these negative people and actually get them to see OUR side...yet I posted the worst and most ignorant initial comments...


Remember the guy that was really hateful to a lot of people like Wendy, Luci etc well...here is our exchange



Posted By: dmdaven2 @ 04/24/2009 2:07:01 PM
Hey what's you logical explanation as to why Sean shouldn't be with his biological father?

Imagine this, considering you had a great relationship with your parents (for my example i will assume you did) And you could go back in time, and you were taken away though this time and raised by other people, and never knew your real parents. Knowing how great your real parents could have been to you, despite how well you may have been raised by a psuedo family, wouldn't you feel like you missed out? wouldn't you regret not having been raised by your REAL parents?

It's the same case here, regardless of Sean being raised well or not in Brazil, he's personally missing out on the chance to be raised by his REAL father...someone who cares about him dearly.


Posted By: SilkSpectre @ 04/24/2009 3:58:50 PM
I think it's sad that Mr Goldman haven't been able to be with his son. I hope things work out good for them. But it's unfair to crucify a whole country because of the actions of a few people. There are bad people and good people EVERYWHERE.


Before he would have NEVER admitted to thinking Sean and David not being together was "sad"...

The other main opponent came to terms as well, or at least took a step in the right direction

Posted By: dmdaven2 @ 04/23/2009 12:03:59 PM

You're providing suggestions to me as if you've been through this before...but you haven't, you're merely an outsider logically attempting to debate the LBP standpoint to defend your country only because you were born there...My only point to you now is raising awareness to you and your peers or co-signers that your country, regardless of it's other achievements has a large black cloud of dishonor hanging over it due to it's lack of compliance with a National Treaty. Therefore if you want to help...stop responding in defense of your country because logically written or not...Brazil is wrong, you're not helping by debating. Only thing I would like from you is for you to encourage your peers in Brazil that this is an issue and it's intolerable...join the http://www.bringseanhome.org read our stories, see our children and educate yourself on the trauma us LBP go through. Then i'd find it hard to believe you'd have the same mindset you have now.


Posted By: ROliveira @ 04/23/2009 9:03:17 PM
I am also a father and you actually don???t know what I had done for my child so please focus on what you know. Despite of this your note is totally clear and has no allusions to anything except the sincere discussion of your claim. It also has no emotion and I congratulate you for that.

I???ll certainly take a look at the web site.

Good luck!




I may be only 22 yrs old but I'm baaaaaadd...stick with me...and we'll go faaaaarr


*again sorry if i offended anyone initially with my posts on newsweek...allll part of the master plan though!

[AnotherDad]

Devon, you are reeaally something. I can't help but chuckle over how you work people. You're a pro.
 
Props !

[m1987]

Honestly, I am probably one of the ones who was most bothered by the things that you wrote on the newsweek site, Devon.  This will most likely be my final post, but I will be supportive of David Goldman from behind the scenes whenever needed.  Where you may well have gotten a rise out of people and a reaction, in my opinion, you were aggressive and threatening.  Your screen name on Newsweek was very similar if not the same as it is on BSH, and you mentioned this site and Mr. Goldman, therefore tying you directly to his case.  In other words, you seem to others to be one of his representatives, and you have a responsibility to Mr. Goldman, his son (and your own child) to behave appropriately.  After all, it is his suffering that has broken so much ground for other LBPs.  Not one time has Mr. Goldman ever behaved in an aggressive manner.  If anyone has the right to do that, he does, but his representatives don't unless he has asked that of them (perhaps he has, I don't know him at all personally, but I don't get the feeling he is the kind of person who would ask that of anyone).  I believe that your threats (one was of an attack on the other country) can be perceived his by some.  Isn't it true that the other side is looking for anything and everything to use against him.  My post will probably be deleted for expressing this opinion, but in my opinion, you should be ashamed of your behaviour.  You will one day be reunited with your daughter, and later she will be able to read the things you've written.  More importantly, perhaps Mr. Goldman's son might come upon your comments one day and interpret them as though they are the majority opinion of BSH.  You claim to have had this all planned ahead of time and well thought out.  If that is the case, then I find it even more disappointing.

My apologies if I've offended anyone by this post.  I feel very deeply for all of the parents (and stepparents like AnotherDad) who, like myself, have been alienated.  I was always under the impression that David Goldman was our role model in this and we should behave accordingly.  Rallies, organised protests, mass emails, phoning, writing letters, etc. are all things that I truly believe help and make a difference.  I see Devon's behaviour as damaging.  We joined 'forces' first to bring Sean Goldman back to his father here in the States for good.  It is absolutely wonderful that others can be reunited as well, but it is not okay if any behaviour reflects negatively on David Goldman.

That being said, this group and the organisation has impressed me beyond belief, and I know that your efforts will help in bringing Sean home to his father for good.

[dmdaven2]

Honestly, I am probably one of the ones who was most bothered by the things that you wrote on the newsweek site, Devon.  This will most likely be my final post, but I will be supportive of David Goldman from behind the scenes whenever needed.  Where you may well have gotten a rise out of people and a reaction, in my opinion, you were aggressive and threatening.  Your screen name on Newsweek was very similar if not the same as it is on BSH, and you mentioned this site and Mr. Goldman, therefore tying you directly to his case.  In other words, you seem to others to be one of his representatives, and you have a responsibility to Mr. Goldman, his son (and your own child) to behave appropriately.  After all, it is his suffering that has broken so much ground for other LBPs.  Not one time has Mr. Goldman ever behaved in an aggressive manner.  If anyone has the right to do that, he does, but his representatives don't unless he has asked that of them (perhaps he has, I don't know him at all personally, but I don't get the feeling he is the kind of person who would ask that of anyone).  I believe that your threats (one was of an attack on the other country) can be perceived his by some.  Isn't it true that the other side is looking for anything and everything to use against him.  My post will probably be deleted for expressing this opinion, but in my opinion, you should be ashamed of your behaviour.  You will one day be reunited with your daughter, and later she will be able to read the things you've written.  More importantly, perhaps Mr. Goldman's son might come upon your comments one day and interpret them as though they are the majority opinion of BSH.  You claim to have had this all planned ahead of time and well thought out.  If that is the case, then I find it even more disappointing.

My apologies if I've offended anyone by this post.  I feel very deeply for all of the parents (and stepparents like AnotherDad) who, like myself, have been alienated.  I was always under the impression that David Goldman was our role model in this and we should behave accordingly.  Rallies, organised protests, mass emails, phoning, writing letters, etc. are all things that I truly believe help and make a difference.  I see Devon's behaviour as damaging.  We joined 'forces' first to bring Sean Goldman back to his father here in the States for good.  It is absolutely wonderful that others can be reunited as well, but it is not okay if any behaviour reflects negatively on David Goldman.

That being said, this group and the organisation has impressed me beyond belief, and I know that your efforts will help in bringing Sean home to his father for good.

Hey hey hey....I succeeded where others failed...i'm in the process of describing yellow to the blind yet you're here as a mere visitor accusing me of offending you... :mad2:

I know exactly what David is going through...if you could experience a 10th of the pain I feel daily, you'd applaud me for what I do here in BSH :cloud: The fact I even give my time when I have yet to see the light or any results from this hell, this traumatic situation...My daughter would be extremely proud of me, to be as mentally drained and debilitated as I am, my brain still works brilliantly in my desperation and efforts to look in her eyes again. You should be ashamed to even dare to criticize me after what I've managed to do...if this were a chess game...you'd lose, i'd win with all my pieces on the board...As a LBP never condemn me for the positive things I do in this effort you've pissed me off and I suggest you get thicker skin...In fact how about you give logical suggestions in my absence on how to strategically battle a non-compliant country who refuses to return abducted children, or comprise a handbook for future LBP to use in their efforts to get their children back as to avoid the pitfalls that a LBP experience on a daily basis. You're meritless, and I hope your caliber of thinking is the slightest bit helpful in that effort...everyone can thank you...this is my last post as well
:madgo:

[Cāmara]

Don't go m1987. I really enjoy your posts.

Devon, Drink some chamomile tea and stay as well.

[AnotherDad]

Come on guys, what's with the posticide? Drink the tea, work out, calm down, and stay, working behind the scenes is great, but we need ideas in the forum as well. Lets not have a double-knockout please. I'll admit that I never read the Newsweek article or any of its subsequent comments, but we can't get overly worked up about them. What's done is done, and only limited damage resulted. I'm pissed that Newsweek got this article out without even doing enough research to find us and ask a single question, causing us to live in comment-land, which I think few people read anyway. As for kids reading this stuff years from now. Never happen. So much of all of the items posted here will just be lost in internet 404 oblivion. Sean won't read it unless David Saves it, and Devon's daughter won't either. We should not threaten and we should try to seperate our offsite alter-egos as much as possible for reasons I don't want to share with JPLS & Co.. But please, everybody stay in the fold, both outwardly and behind the scenes.

[Goliath]

I like Daven's fire but I do think it needs to be honed in and focused directly on the villains.  Every country has problems and I think as USA members we can and do have more of an impact on our own country so before speaking of holding an entire country accountable, a "third world country" on that matter, for not complying 100% with treaties we should be more stressed about getting the leaders of the world (ourselves) in line on a macro level.

That said, though, when it comes to individual cases like Devon and David Goldman, then we have some actual villains we can let our ire onto.  The mothers that abducted them, the lies and distortions. Like someone said in the newsweek article, if this was about George Bush going into Iraq she would have been outraged about that as well, but that wasn't the topic.  But I'm certain that same person then doesn't unleash all her rage on every American and every policy and decision by the country, rather narrows it in on the culprit.  

But I think sweeping generalizations about Brazil are too much.

[AnotherDad]

I believe this affair has been batted about in this forum quite a bit in a different thread. I pray that we just drop it, good or bad. Devon practiced his right to free speech in a national publication. I believe he has repented already for going over the line, even if he had some success with other readers out there in oblivion. Devon understands the fair point made that he didn't adequately separate his alter-self from the fine, yet hurting Devon that we know and love here. Devon understands that making a slightly abstract point to readers who aren't all such abstract thinkers, may have not helped David & Sean. But, Devon, IMHO, didn't exactly hurt BSH or the principals, either. Comment land is always viewed as usually occupied by reactive and less intellectual writers than the primary author, right or wrong. JPLS & band of merry followers do latch onto anything of value that they may troll for in their losing PR battle, but I'm sure they will see bigger fish (no disrespect here Devon), than a follow-up poster to an irresponsible article that none of us wanted. Again, for the best benefit to this specific father and son, I personally beg each person reading to let this one end here and not even bicker or debate in PMs with even another syllable. I now pray.

[sue]

I believe this affair has been batted about in this forum quite a bit in a different thread. I pray that we just drop it, good or bad. Devon practiced his right to free speech in a national publication. I believe he has repented already for going over the line, even if he had some success with other readers out there in oblivion. Devon understands the fair point made that he didn't adequately separate his alter-self from the fine, yet hurting Devon that we know and love here. Devon understands that making a slightly abstract point to readers who aren't all such abstract thinkers, may have not helped David & Sean. But, Devon, IMHO, didn't exactly hurt BSH or the principals, either. Comment land is always viewed as usually occupied by reactive and less intellectual writers than the primary author, right or wrong. JPLS & band of merry followers do latch onto anything of value that they may troll for in their losing PR battle, but I'm sure they will see bigger fish (no disrespect here Devon), than a follow-up poster to an irresponsible article that none of us wanted. Again, for the best benefit to this specific father and son, I personally beg each person reading to let this one end here and not even bicker or debate in PMs with even another syllable. I now pray.

Shall I move the thread?