Bring Sean Home Forums

Goldman Forums => “Heard in Rio” => Topic started by: Isabel on February 21, 2009, 04:49:41 PM

Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Isabel on February 21, 2009, 04:49:41 PM
In reading the various articles and blogs that are starting to appear in Portuguese on David and Sean Goldman's story, I noted with interest that the comments in Portuguese show very little support for the Ribeiro Carneiro and Lins e Silva family.  Many actually show disgust at their attitudes and 99% seem unanimous in believing that Sean should be with his father. I won't even get into how some speak about Bruna, since she is no longer amongst us to defend herself. Let's just say that it seems that the Brazilians that are commenting on the blogs and newspaper websites do not appreciate mothers that take children away from loving fathers.
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 21, 2009, 04:58:38 PM
Yay.  So it is spreading over there?  The news?  I hope this is resolved before the Brazilian President comes here.
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: dana on February 21, 2009, 06:02:49 PM
YES!!! I hope that the more people in Brazil find out about what is going on w/ Sean, that they (the abductors) are ashamed of themselves in public.
Title: Article in the Brazilian Voice
Post by: Isabel on February 21, 2009, 07:26:54 PM
There was an article in the Brazilian voice today on François Larivee's story. François is another father who had is son kidnapped by his wife.
 
http://www.brazilianvoice.com/bv_noticias/bv_comunidade/2629.html
 
The article mentions the problems in enforcing the Hague Convention in Brazil due to all the appeals and bureacracy available to the kidnapping parent.
 
It also mentions David's story and how the "famous attorney João Paulo Lins e Silva" is trying to get custody of Sean (guess the Brazilian Voice is not scared of the gag order on the press!)
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 21, 2009, 07:58:46 PM
This is great.
Title: Let's encourage Brasileiros to express displeasure strongly
Post by: TomD on February 21, 2009, 08:21:14 PM
Quote from: Isabel;56
In reading the various articles and blogs that are starting to appear in Portuguese on David and Sean Goldman's story, I noted with interest that the comments in Portuguese show very little support for the Ribeiro Carneiro and Lins e Silva family. Many actually show disgust at their attitudes and 99% seem unanimous in believing that Sean should be with his father. I won't even get into how some speak about Bruna, since she is no longer amongst us to defend herself. Let's just say that it seems that the Brazilians that are commenting on the blogs and newspaper websites do not appreciate mothers that take children away from loving fathers.

The 99% are decent people who are not fooled by the culprits and are not beholden to them. We need to thank them for speaking out and encourage them to express their disgust to their government. A grass-roots mobilization of this displeasure and anger should help convinced the federal officials that they must take corrective action or risk public outrage.
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tweinstein on February 21, 2009, 08:28:00 PM
I'd be curious to know whether the majority of blogs in Portuguese are from people living INSIDE or OUTSIDE of Brazil. I'm sure that the attitude of Cubans living in Miami is very different from Cubans living in Cuba. (Note: I'm NOT implying anything about Brazilians by using Cuba as a comparison)

When I speak to my wife's family in Brazil about my ongoing fight, they actually place a lot of blame on the United States government for Brazil's non-compliance. They feel that it is not so much a cultural reason, but simply because their government doesn't like the U.S. To this I reply, "Then why doesn't Brazil send back children to Canada, Australia, etc?"
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Isabel on February 21, 2009, 08:34:50 PM
tweinstein, assuming that the information on the blogs are correct, some are living abroad (not only in the US but also Europe) but others are in Brazil, including in Rio. As for the comments, it is virtually impossible to know where the people are, except in the few cases where they mention this.
 
As for blaming the US, I live abroad and it is true that the US is somewhat seen as a paper tiger now-a-days, but that cannot be the excuse for a country not abiding by an INTERNATIONAL TREATY. Besides, what's the excuse in François' case? And in all the other cases affecting citizens of other countries? Personally, I just think that because Brazil sees the children of Brazilian citizens as Brazilian, they side with the Brazilian parent and just ignore international law. I don't think it has anything to do with wanting to "stand up" to the States, but this is just my personal opinion.
 
 
Quote from: tweinstein;81
I'd be curious to know whether the majority of blogs in Portuguese are from people living INSIDE or OUTSIDE of Brazil. I'm sure that the attitude of Cubans living in Miami is very different from Cubans living in Cuba. (Note: I'm NOT implying anything about Brazilians by using Cuba as a comparison)
 
When I speak to my wife's family in Brazil about my ongoing fight, they actually place a lot of blame on the United States government for Brazil's non-compliance. They feel that it is not so much a cultural reason, but simply because their government doesn't like the U.S. To this I reply, "Then why doesn't Brazil send back children to Canada, Australia, etc?"
Title: Brazilian Voice
Post by: Bob D'Amico on February 21, 2009, 08:42:24 PM
Brazilian Voice is a U.S based newspaper serving the large Portuguese - American and Brazilian - American communities in New Jersey, NY, MA and Rhode Island. They are not subject to any so-called press gag orders in Brazil.

It's good to see they are continuing to follow the fact that Brazil is consistently not complying with the terms of the Hague Convention. You can bet that Brazilian Americans will spread the word back home about the +50 abduction cases of North American children and the lack of cooperation of the Brazilian judiciary and government.
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: SONYAMARSHALL on February 21, 2009, 10:11:52 PM
Quote from: tweinstein;81
I'd be curious to know whether the majority of blogs in Portuguese are from people living INSIDE or OUTSIDE of Brazil. I'm sure that the attitude of Cubans living in Miami is very different from Cubans living in Cuba. (Note: I'm NOT implying anything about Brazilians by using Cuba as a comparison)
 
When I speak to my wife's family in Brazil about my ongoing fight, they actually place a lot of blame on the United States government for Brazil's non-compliance. They feel that it is not so much a cultural reason, but simply because their government doesn't like the U.S. To this I reply, "Then why doesn't Brazil send back children to Canada, Australia, etc?"

It doesn't matter or I should say it shouldn't matter whether or not the governments are best friends. Law is Law. Return these kids!
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Hanna on February 22, 2009, 12:28:36 AM
Quote from: Isabel;56
In reading the various articles and blogs that are starting to appear in Portuguese on David and Sean Goldman's story, I noted with interest that the comments in Portuguese show very little support for the Ribeiro Carneiro and Lins e Silva family. Many actually show disgust at their attitudes and 99% seem unanimous in believing that Sean should be with his father. I won't even get into how some speak about Bruna, since she is no longer amongst us to defend herself. Let's just say that it seems that the Brazilians that are commenting on the blogs and newspaper websites do not appreciate mothers that take children away from loving fathers.

 
I agree with what Tweinstein point. All my family in Brazil got really defensive with me when I told them about this story. I told them how I thought what happend to David G. was such an injustice and how Brazil did not comply with the Hague Convention. They all gave me cold shoulders and did not want to discuss the story any further. I am very upset and sad with their reaction. I thought I'd get their support and understanding, but no.
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Hanna on February 22, 2009, 12:32:20 AM
I agree with your point. All my family in Brazil got really defensive with me when I told  about this story. I told them how I thought what happend to David G. was such an injustice and how Brazil did not comply with the Hague Convention. They all gave me cold shoulders and did not want to discuss the story any further. I am very upset and sad with their reaction. I thought I'd get their support and understanding, but no. They don't seem to understand this is not a 'football' match (soccer) but an international custody battle.
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 22, 2009, 10:17:26 AM
Quote from: Isabel;70
There was an article in the Brazilian voice today on François Larivee's story. François is another father who had is son kidnapped by his wife.
 
http://www.brazilianvoice.com/bv_noticias/bv_comunidade/2629.html
 
The article mentions the problems in enforcing the Hague Convention in Brazil due to all the appeals and bureacracy available to the kidnapping parent.
 
It also mentions David's story and how the "famous attorney João Paulo Lins e Silva" is trying to get custody of Sean (guess the Brazilian Voice is not scared of the gag order on the press!)

 
Gag order on the press:
 
The gag order is not over in Brazil, Revista Piaui, O Estado de Sao Paulo, Consultor Juridico, G1 Globo, Jornal O Globo, Jornal Zero Hora etc...Had to pay a fee for their articles. I don't know what happens if the Brazilian newspaper/midia is from here (US)...
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 22, 2009, 10:23:36 AM
Quote from: Hanna;109
I agree with your point. All my family in Brazil got really defensive with me when I told about this story. I told them how I thought what happend to David G. was such an injustice and how Brazil did not comply with the Hague Convention. They all gave me cold shoulders and did not want to discuss the story any further. I am very upset and sad with their reaction. I thought I'd get their support and understanding, but no. They don't seem to understand this is not a 'football' match (soccer) but an international custody battle.

 
I agree with you, my family did the same. They told me to give up and get out of the story because Lins e Silva's family are very powerful, and to be careful because my last name in Rio is not difficult to find out in the yellow pages the address and Phone #, they were scared !
What kind of stuff could they do ? This is ridiculous...
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Isabel on February 22, 2009, 04:41:45 PM
I can understand why they might be scared to go up against a powerful family that obviously has no problem twisting the law to serve its purposes, but like Edmund Burke once said "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing"...
 
Is sticking one's head in the sand and pretending this is not happening really the best solution? Is making Brazil look, in the eyes of the rest of the world, like a banana republic that does not follow the international agreements it signs, just to cater to some prominent family, really worth it?
 
 
Quote from: Claudia.Hope;121
I agree with you, my family did the same. They told me to give up and get out of the story because Lins e Silva's family are very powerful, and to be careful because my last name in Rio is not difficult to find out in the yellow pages the address and Phone #, they were scared !
What kind of stuff could they do ? This is ridiculous...
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: SteveW on February 22, 2009, 08:11:47 PM
Quote from: Claudia.Hope;120
Gag order on the press:
 
The gag order is not over in Brazil, Revista Piaui, O Estado de Sao Paulo, Consultor Juridico, G1 Globo, Jornal O Globo, Jornal Zero Hora etc...Had to pay a fee for their articles. I don't know what happens if the Brazilian newspaper/midia is from here (US)...

Not sure I believe this. Is there any proof?  Was it reported that they had paid fines?
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 22, 2009, 08:48:49 PM
Quote from: SteveW;169
Not sure I believe this. Is there any proof? Was it reported that they had paid fines?

Steve, believe me they paid!
I would't like to explain how I know that but I know:).
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 23, 2009, 07:16:30 PM
http://riogringa.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/10/top-ten-misconceptions-about-the-goldman-kidnapping-case-1.html


don't know if anybody's posted this yet
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: JamesJosephs on February 23, 2009, 07:18:00 PM
Quote from: Claudia.Hope;178
Steve, believe me they paid!
I would't like to explain how I know that but I know:).

 
I don't believe it either.
 
Not for a second.
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 23, 2009, 09:02:28 PM
Ok Guys,
One very good journalist works for one famous Newspaper ...He heard about David's story ...He made an article 2 1/2 months ago, we were waiting for days to see it in the newspaper but the Legal depto told him if they publish the story they had to pay a fine , another famous Newspaper had to pay, so after find out that... they gave up. Although they know that a fine exists to be paid , for them the story became good enough for the risk : important people involved...authorities etc...so we had the same newspaper (that gave up before) with a very good article recently...I'm sure before to pay their legal dept will discuss the case in the court !
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 23, 2009, 09:59:05 PM
Claudia.Hope

Are you saying this is how you know fines were paid.....one newspaper already paid them.......or are you saying a paper is waiting to publish the story????
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: SteveW on February 23, 2009, 10:33:09 PM
Claudia, I'm apologize if I seemed rude. While I realize that there has been a court order, I'm not aware of any news media actually having to pay a fine. Of course, that might not have been public, but I still have my doubts.
 
Some of those doubts arise from the excellent article written by eyeLegal. Of course that article only reflects their opinion, but its a convincing article. One of the points they make is that the ban is unenforceable, since the target it too general. Piaui was never officially notified that their was a ban, and based on the eyeLegal logic, could not be fined until they were notified.
 
But I could be wrong.
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Bo1 on February 24, 2009, 09:04:26 AM
Quote from: Hanna;108
I agree with what Tweinstein point. All my family in Brazil got really defensive with me when I told them about this story. I told them how I thought what happend to David G. was such an injustice and how Brazil did not comply with the Hague Convention. They all gave me cold shoulders and did not want to discuss the story any further. I am very upset and sad with their reaction. I thought I'd get their support and understanding, but no.


That's a typical reaction...unfortunately . Living here day-to-day for the last 9+ years I'm sorry to say that Brazilians just don't like hearing that they're wrong, and especially when it comes to international situations, and particularly involving the U.S. This country and vasts percentages of it's citizens have taken an anti-U.S. lean since the PT party took control and a lot of it, in my opinion, has been prompted by the mainstream brazilian media.
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 24, 2009, 12:37:12 PM
Are the news people still talking about this and wanting to print it?
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Hanna on February 24, 2009, 12:52:28 PM
Quote from: Claudia.Hope;121
I agree with you, my family did the same. They told me to give up and get out of the story because Lins e Silva's family are very powerful, and to be careful because my last name in Rio is not difficult to find out in the yellow pages the address and Phone #, they were scared !
What kind of stuff could they do ? This is ridiculous...

Claudia!
My father lives in Brazil. He is a college professor with a PHD from the University of Oregon. He was an English teacher for many years in Brasil and is now a professional Public Translator. I have a nephew in Brazil who is a lawyer. I've been emailing them back an forth about this case and it got to the point where I decided enough was enough. I could not get my point across as much as I have tried. They believe Brazil did everything right and their argument is that David must not have been a good dad and they also say he refused to appear in court for the custody battle in Brazil when Bruna was alive!!! I do not know where they have gotten their information from but I did tell them it was not accurate and that is probably what Lins and Silva has come up as a defense. It's jsut too upsetting to know that they actually choose to believe that. It makes me wonder how many other brazilians in Brazil share the same opinion. I'm very disapointed to say the least.
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tweinstein on February 24, 2009, 12:59:30 PM
"he refused to appear in court for the custody battle in Brazil when Bruna was alive!"

I was actually advised by my attorney(from the Brazilian government) NOT to entertain a custody battle in Brazil and try to keep the focus on the issue of Brazil not complying with an international treaty that it signed. If this accusation is true, it would simply be David following the advice of his attorney.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: caique mateus on February 24, 2009, 02:24:47 PM
I didn't have the same experience some people mentioned here. I'm brazilian but I live in Europe. I got to know this case in a forum about "Paula Oliveira" case. I was ashamed and embarassed (really, I felt my face getting red) with the behaviour of these people. I even wrote directly to the stepfather and got the reply they are posting everywhere (from "Guta"). I didn't know the details of the story, but I didn't believe this reply anyway. Then I started spreading it in my family. Everybody feels the same as me (they all live in Brazil). They don't care if it's an american "against" a brazilian, it's just a matter of law AND of family. I've seen some forums in Brazil (orkut, Nivea Stelmen blog) and most people say it's outrageous. Unfortunatelly, the law is not like that just for kidnappers. If you have money, you have a good chance to get away if you commite a crime in Brazil. That's the sad true. I remember a case I saw in Fantástico about a brazilian attorney who got the custody of a girl to which she has NO RELATION whatsoever. She just liked the girl and decided she had to be hers. The mother got the right to visit, but has to return the girl on Sunday night. The girl cries hers eyes out, but if the mother doesn't do that, she can go to jail. A reporter interviewed the attorney and she said she has better financial way to support the little girl. However, brazilian law is very clear, better finances IS NOT ALLOWED AS REASON TO GIVE CUSTODY TO SOMEONE.
It also seems that lately Brazil is fighting the wrong international battles:
- They allowed Cesare Batisti, a convited murder to stay in Brazil, claiming that legal system is not fair in Italy!
- They said swiss police was not fair to a Brazilian lady who, finally, was a lier. Brazil theathened to bring this case to ONU! And, after she confessed, Brazil refused to apologize!
- Brazil supports the corrupt system in Venezuela, Equador and Bolivia, but refuses to call FARC and HAMAS terrorists!
I'm trying to do what I can from here. I have a son and I can imagine what David is going on... and just imagine is hard. I may be wrong, I don't know, but I think that most brazilian people who know this story in detail and see this father speaking will support David. More than anything, latin people are extremly attached to family, this is something we can understand easily. Just knowing that David did not talk bad about "the others" when talking to Sean is something very strong and I'm sure this would talk to the heart of anybody: americans, brazilians, martians....
I'll follow this story until Sean is back home too. And I'm trying to bring more people.
Title: Illicit dislocation of children is a subject of audience in the STF
Post by: rcgracia on February 24, 2009, 03:22:22 PM
Mom25 ad tweisntein I translated in this site:
http://free-translation.imtranslator.net/default.asp?ldr=pt_en&loc=pt
 
On Tuesday, 17 of February of 2009
 
Illicit dislocation of children is a subject of audience in the STF
 
The president of the Federal Supreme Court (STF), brought together Minister Gilmar Mendes in the night of this Tuesday (17) with integrants of the Group of Work of Hague on the illicit dislocation of children for relatives. There were present the general-lawyer of the Union, José Antonio Dias Toffoli, ambassador Oto Maia, representing the State Department, the secretary of Human rights, Paul de Tarso Vanucchi and the counselor of the National Council of Justice (CNJ) Jorge Antônio Maurique, coordinator of the group.
 
Second Maurique, existent conflicts, normally between father and mother, can give rise to the illicit retreat of a child of his country of usual residence. In some cases, she is subtracted by the grandparents or by the uncle and aunt. He explains that, though the Brazilian legislation should have treated the question like being a seizure of children, other terms they are more appropriate like retention, subtraction or illicit dislocation.
 
The group of work was created in August of 2006, when there notified approximately 90 cases that go through the procedure or they went through the procedure already in Brazil. The effective number, according to the coordinator, is quite superior because informations are lacking of as it will proceed in these situations. He informed that in these two years of work the group acted already in more than 10 cases with success.
 
In agreement with the counselor Jorge Antônio Maurique, the objective of the group is to spread the Convention of Hague in Brazil so that she is known and carried out. This standard establishes what the child turns to his country of usual residence, unless there will be a relevant reason so that she remains in the country in which she is. “ We want to spread that she exists, that his fulfilment is important in Brazil and that the children have a right to the shelter of the protection of this convention ”, it stood out
 
 
With that, the standard claims that the case is judged by the natural judge of the child and that the term for the tramitação of the process, of the beginning to the end, is six weeks, when was thought extremely short for the Brazilian standards
 
We intend to carry out appropriately the convention because I do not greet it it can give rise to constant problems at international level ”, said Maurique. According to him, the group also intends to speed up the progress of the processes made a list to the subject so that they are solved in the fast form
 
 
 
Imagine the culture shock what a child suffers when it is withdrawn ilicitamente of Sweden and brought to the interior of Sao Paulo? ”, it inquired the counselor. “ The great problem is a culture shock, disrespect to the human rights and to the rights of the parents of they coexist with the children, besides the slowness ”, it completed.
 
 
We want to say to the judges that Brazil makes part of an international order that establishes rules in these types of cases, and these rules we have to follow ”, it finished.
EC/EH
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 24, 2009, 04:46:51 PM
What exactly does this mean?  That they will comply and send the children home?  Does this have something to do with Sean Goldman?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: rcgracia on February 24, 2009, 05:12:02 PM
I believe that is a yes!!!
 
 
That is going to put pressure in the Brazilian government
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 24, 2009, 05:59:26 PM
Wonderful.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 24, 2009, 05:59:45 PM
Even when this is translated it's hard to follow.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tweinstein on February 24, 2009, 06:47:10 PM
It is a machine translation. Hopefully someone who is fluent in Portuguese can clean it up.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: FC_Florida on February 24, 2009, 07:21:07 PM
Quote from: caiqueemateus;372
I didn't have the same experience some people mentioned here. I'm brazilian but I live in Europe. I got to know this case in a forum about "Paula Oliveira" case. I was ashamed and embarassed (really, I felt my face getting red) with the behaviour of these people. I even wrote directly to the stepfather and got the reply they are posting everywhere (from "Guta"). I didn't know the details of the story, but I didn't believe this reply anyway. Then I started spreading it in my family. Everybody feels the same as me (they all live in Brazil). They don't care if it's an american "against" a brazilian, it's just a matter of law AND of family. I've seen some forums in Brazil (orkut, Nivea Stelmen blog) and most people say it's outrageous. Unfortunatelly, the law is not like that just for kidnappers. If you have money, you have a good chance to get away if you commite a crime in Brazil. That's the sad true. I remember a case I saw in Fantástico about a brazilian attorney who got the custody of a girl to which she has NO RELATION whatsoever. She just liked the girl and decided she had to be hers. The mother got the right to visit, but has to return the girl on Sunday night. The girl cries hers eyes out, but if the mother doesn't do that, she can go to jail. A reporter interviewed the attorney and she said she has better financial way to support the little girl. However, brazilian law is very clear, better finances IS NOT ALLOWED AS REASON TO GIVE CUSTODY TO SOMEONE.
It also seems that lately Brazil is fighting the wrong international battles:
- They allowed Cesare Batisti, a convited murder to stay in Brazil, claiming that legal system is not fair in Italy!
- They said swiss police was not fair to a Brazilian lady who, finally, was a lier. Brazil theathened to bring this case to ONU! And, after she confessed, Brazil refused to apologize!
- Brazil supports the corrupt system in Venezuela, Equador and Bolivia, but refuses to call FARC and HAMAS terrorists!
I'm trying to do what I can from here. I have a son and I can imagine what David is going on... and just imagine is hard. I may be wrong, I don't know, but I think that most brazilian people who know this story in detail and see this father speaking will support David. More than anything, latin people are extremly attached to family, this is something we can understand easily. Just knowing that David did not talk bad about "the others" when talking to Sean is something very strong and I'm sure this would talk to the heart of anybody: americans, brazilians, martians....
I'll follow this story until Sean is back home too. And I'm trying to bring more people.

Hi Caiquematheus,

It doesn’t surprise me your indignation towards "Brasilíndia".
If you read the info about BringSeanHome.Org on Daniel Piza's blog on " Estadão" about Paula Oliveira, it might have been me who wrote it. And I am proud of it if it's the case, since it's been very hard to let people be informed in Brazil about what's going on. So I'm taking any opportunity I can to direct people to this website in any Brazilian blog. So far I haven't been censured.  :D

I live here in the U.S. but I am from Brazil and I want my country of birth to do the right thing by this man, David Goldman( and hopefully by the 50 others out there), who has been thru enough.
As you might know by now, the  people in Brazil who are involved in this case are doing everything in their power (how unfortunate for David to have to be dealing with the Lins E Silva) to keep that boy away from him. What a shame!
You know, like you, I'm glad my family and everybody I told this story to in Brazil are siding with David, or at least think that is a no-brainer decision that Sean Goldman shouldn't have been separated under no circumstance from his father.
If you have the chance to watch the Dateline interview link, please, I urge you to do so. Tell your friends and people who might still think otherwise to watch it.
It clearly shows that David was completely blindsided by his wife Bruna and her parent’s actions, who together, deceived Mr. Goldman. They just simply, without going through proper channels, took away his son to Brazil as if their life together in the U.S. never existed.
Keep sharing this info with your friends. Your help is greatly appreciated! Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 24, 2009, 08:45:24 PM
Quote from: SteveW;295
Claudia, I'm apologize if I seemed rude. While I realize that there has been a court order, I'm not aware of any news media actually having to pay a fine. Of course, that might not have been public, but I still have my doubts.
 
Some of those doubts arise from the excellent article written by eyeLegal. Of course that article only reflects their opinion, but its a convincing article. One of the points they make is that the ban is unenforceable, since the target it too general. Piaui was never officially notified that their was a ban, and based on the eyeLegal logic, could not be fined until they were notified.
 
 
But I could be wrong.
Hi Steve,
I gave the information that I heard from this journalist  but if is truth or not, I cannot confirm, I do not have any proof or document. Before his recent article that finally we could read...uffffsss, he could not do anything... an I know how much he was working hard ! He told me that A Folha de Sao Paulo Newspaper was  notified, but I don't know if they really paid.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tstravis on February 24, 2009, 09:45:46 PM
I am sure this isnt scientific by any means, but it seems like there are quite a few Brazilians signing the petition...so that is encouraging!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: caique mateus on February 25, 2009, 08:42:51 AM
Hi, FC Florida.
I read the comment in Época. So, there are more people spreading the word. Good!
I saw the interview and read the transcription, just to make sure I wasn't loosing anything. It's quite clear to me.
You know, more than anything, information like this is not possible to be hidden these days. Whatever happens (and we hope it'll be solved soon), one day Sean is going to be an adult and will know all this by himself. David is right not to talk bad about people who are taking care of Sean now, but eventually the whole situation will change. Sean is going to be able to judge by himself and is going to cry for every day he was apart from his father.  I believe they are taking good care of Sean (apart from the kidnapping itself) but I think they'll not be able to avoid his anger when he is old enough to understand everything. I wonder why they don't see that. They might be able to buy many things, not this.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tstravis on February 25, 2009, 09:41:58 AM
caiqueemateus -
well said! i was just thinking this morning about this... dont they realize that it is just a matter of time before Sean himself will be able to read about what they have done and judge for himself!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: caique mateus on February 25, 2009, 09:49:39 AM
I don't know if it helps but I did it. I wrote to OAB-RJ and asked what is their position in all this. Here is the link:
http://www.oab-rj.org.br/forms/ouvidoria.jsp
Here is the information about the stepfather. This is public information got in the OAB website:
Nome: JOÃO PAULO BAGUEIRA LEAL LINS E SILVA
Número de Inscrição: 94728
Tipo de inscrição: PRINCIPAL
Telefone comercial: (21) 25213030
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: naiarax on February 25, 2009, 12:23:52 PM
Hello everyone,
Not sure if you guys heard about this website that it is VERY popular in Brazil for news, etc... www.terra.com.br (http://www.terra.com.br) Well, after the NYT articles, they published it today on the website and there are a lot of comments of Brazilians... Here is the link http://noticias.terra.com.br/brasil/interna/0,,OI3597913-EI306,00.html
Most of the comments are in favor of David....
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 25, 2009, 01:04:13 PM
Good.  Now when the heck are they going to hear this in Federal Court?  I don't even know these people and I am sick of waiting and very frustrated, I can't imagine how the fathers must feel.  This is so very wrong in so many ways.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 25, 2009, 01:42:22 PM
According to one of the provisions in the hauge convention, the child should be returned to their orignial country and the custody case shall take place their; so if the federal court rules him to return to the U.S., and since Bruna is dead, David shouldn't have to worry about anything else, correct? or can Joao apply for cusotdy in the U.S. courts?(I'm sure he would lose, but I hope this completley ends for David once he gets Sean back)
 
I also hope once they are nearer to a descion, David knows where Sean is at all times so he can get him back before appeals start to come.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 25, 2009, 01:58:18 PM
Will they send him home right away, or will they allow that family to appeal first?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 25, 2009, 02:13:53 PM
I remember someone in the old blog, saying that if David does not get Sean before he files and appeal, Sean will stay with lins e silva during the process.  So the lins e silva might know this and start to hide him, which would be terrible, but I'm sure(hope) David's lawyer knows this.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 25, 2009, 03:31:46 PM
Bomba, Bomba, Bomba!
Agora nao tem mais como eles segurarem as noticias...

Batalha judicial cria tensão nas relações entre EUA e Brasil, diz NYT
http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/...L+DIZ+NYT.html (http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/0,,MUL1017074-5598,00-BATALHA+JUDICIAL+CRIA+TENSAO+NAS+RELACOES+ENTRE+EUA+E+BRASIL+DIZ+NYT.html)
Americano luta pela custódia do filho trazido ao Brasil pela mãe, diz NYT
ESta no O Globo on line de hoje se referindo a materia do NYTimes.
http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009...-754579573.asp (http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/25/americano-luta-pela-custodia-do-filho-trazido-ao-brasil-pela-mae-diz-nyt-754579573.asp)

Outro grande jornal esta preparando um mega artigo p/ o proximo domingo...

VIVA !!!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 25, 2009, 03:48:06 PM
can somebody translate this?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 25, 2009, 03:48:17 PM
Yes!, the floor is falling out beneath them....they need to do the right thing, and gain some respect back by immeidlatley giving him to David.  I hope there reputation is forever tarnished, and whenever they speak at a conference in the future, this topic gets brought up, and they get bashed beyond belief.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: dana on February 25, 2009, 03:48:38 PM
Wouldn't there be consequences againts Lins e Sliva for hiding Sean?  
Why should he get him during the appeal if he's not his biological father?  Makes NO SENSE!!!  I am sick of waiting for the Brazilian Fed court!!!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 25, 2009, 03:50:43 PM
She's basically saying that they no longer have the insurance in the news, meaning that can't trust the news to not report the story, and reveal the crooks they are.
 
She also said that a major news paper in brazil will have a story by sunday, or something like that
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 25, 2009, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: Claudia.Hope;517
Bomba, Bomba, Bomba!
Agora nao tem mais como eles segurarem as noticias...
 
Batalha judicial cria tensão nas relações entre EUA e Brasil, diz NYT
http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/...L+DIZ+NYT.html (http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/0,,MUL1017074-5598,00-BATALHA+JUDICIAL+CRIA+TENSAO+NAS+RELACOES+ENTRE+EUA+E+BRASIL+DIZ+NYT.html)
Americano luta pela custódia do filho trazido ao Brasil pela mãe, diz NYT
ESta no O Globo on line de hoje se referindo a materia do NYTimes.
http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009...-754579573.asp (http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/25/americano-luta-pela-custodia-do-filho-trazido-ao-brasil-pela-mae-diz-nyt-754579573.asp)
 
Outro grande jornal esta preparando um mega artigo p/ o proximo domingo...
 
VIVA !!!
I am sorry Guys, but they removed the 1st link, the best one, I don't know why, but I read the article and it was wonderful and in a huge impact !
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 25, 2009, 03:56:09 PM
When will the court make a decision?  That's what I want to know.  It's a no brainer, the mother is dead, give the boy to his father.  I can't believe these people are still holding this son from his father.  Don't you think the poor kid has heard about all of this from school friends?  I'm sure he has, the poor kid.  Thinking his dad didn't care about him and then finding out the truth.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 25, 2009, 03:56:43 PM
What are the people commenting saying?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 25, 2009, 03:57:44 PM
I'm not a lawyer, but he already broke 1 court order for visitation before, and nothing really happend, so i don't know.  I don't know why he didn't get in trouble for before either?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 25, 2009, 03:57:58 PM
Quote from: Claudia.Hope;528
I am sorry Guys, but they removed the 1st link, the best one, I don't know why, but I read the article and it was wonderful and in a huge impact !

the 1st link
Court battle creates tension in relations between U.S. and Brazil, says NYT
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 25, 2009, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: Claudia.Hope;532
the 1st link
Court battle creates tension in relations between U.S. and Brazil, says NYT

It is going to be a huge impact in Brasil!
O Globo is a very popular newspaper...
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 25, 2009, 03:59:47 PM
Well that's the problem with the judicial system in Brazil, it'll take a while to get on the floor, they should make it go to court right away.......When this first happened he had to almost wait a year for it to go to state court, and then they still Gave Bruna custody, It should of been solved back then.....back then he probably thought a year was long, but know I bet he wishes he got him back at the end of the first year.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tweinstein on February 25, 2009, 04:06:53 PM
I remember someone in the old blog, saying that if David does not get Sean before he files and appeal, Sean will stay with lins e silva during the process. So the lins e silva might know this and start to hide him, which would be terrible, but I'm sure(hope) David's lawyer knows this.

That was me that made the comment. It has happened twice already in the Francois Larivee case. Read the story about his case in section, Other Abductions.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 25, 2009, 04:21:53 PM
tweinstein, what is your guess as to how long this will take?  I know I'm asking a crazy question, but you know better than all of us.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 25, 2009, 04:29:03 PM
With how evil these people are David should hire a personal investigator to keep track of all their movements as it goes down the wire.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 25, 2009, 04:37:01 PM
It would me morie easier and smoother transition for Sean if they give him over right away, so he can gather his things, and say bye.  If they try to hide him, he's going to be taken away forcibilly without his things, and without sayiing good bye.  They better do the right thing.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tweinstein on February 25, 2009, 04:41:56 PM
I would not even want to guess how long things could take. The hope we have is that political pressure will lead to faster decisions, though as Roger said once, JPLS still has the legal right to all levels of appeals. As for putting Sean in hiding, I don't think that it would be permanent hiding. It could simply be someone tips him off and he removes the child (as he did for the October visitation) for as long as it took to file the appeal. I imagine that might only be a few days.
Title: O Globo and Estadao posted articles today online
Post by: TeleSkier on February 25, 2009, 04:57:28 PM
I was just looking at the Facebook threads and someone posted that David's story made the online versions of the newspapers today...
 
Great news!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 25, 2009, 05:03:25 PM
Well if David takes him back to the U.S. and silva files an appeal, David has no obligation to go down their to court, and their is no way after all that has happened, that the U.S. woulud enforce any of Brazil's descions,(becasue they will go against the Hague Convention)  Lins e silva would have to come to NJ and would definatley loose, and if he does come, he could get in legal trouble.
 
And the Hauge does state that the cusotdy battle must persist in in the orignal country so If lins e silva does try anything(he shouldn't even have option to apply for custody), it would all have to take place in U.S.
Title: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: TeleSkier on February 25, 2009, 05:05:30 PM
I'm sorry I must repost as going back to FB I see that the date is NOT today...The post was Feb 9th. I should have read closer.
Sorry.
Title: GOOD NEWS + Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Shar on February 25, 2009, 05:45:15 PM
http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/25/americano-luta-pela-custodia-do-filho-trazido-ao-brasil-pela-mae-diz-nyt-754579573.asp
 
The above article (O Globo) is dated today, Feb. 25, 2009.
There are 123 comments already. Can anyone give a quick synopsis of how they're leaning? Most or all are in Portuguese.
 
Also, check out this comment from the Petition today! YEA!!!
 
# 39,660:
2:07 pm PST, Feb 25,Pierre-yves Equinet, Brazil
Hello David , here in Brazil more and more people began to know about your story of shame for all of us and our Justice , and they will support you against this nightmare .Today , for the first time ,the newspaper O Globo relate the case , with a lot of difficulty , but they relate , and I think soon you will see the victory ....remember , even if we see every day here so much story of nonsense , violence and death , there is a lot of people you can trust and will support you ( I work with an Human Right NGO here , Rio de Paz , and we see that every day)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 25, 2009, 07:18:56 PM
Can someone who speaks Portugese please translate this(already tried auto-but want more detail)
 
A questão envolvendo a posse e a guarda desse menino é complexa e cheia de detalhes, mas se deixarmos de lado o emocional e buscarmos informações nos dois lados da questão veremos que as leis protegem o direito do pai. Sou amigo e convivi com pessoas da família Lins e Silva, mesmo assim ao me informar sobre o caso fiquei estarrecido com as ações do João Paulo Lins e Silva.Aliás, a única forma de se informar é através do lado paterno. Os Lins e Silva estão ameaçando processar todos que publicarem
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 25, 2009, 07:30:16 PM
The vast majority of the comments in Portuguese focus on this case as being one more example of how the courts seem to be twisted in favour of those with power and money, and how money seemingly can buy everything in Brazil. It's more frustration than anger.

However, some people do get into more specifics to vent their anger about having learned about the for five years now only to find out that it's still pending.

As a general rule and as a cultural trace, Brazilian people do not trust their government at all, any party, any branch. "Se hay gobierno, soy contra." Quite a simplistic thought, in my opinion, since we have not devised any better alternative :) But the frustration is understandable: watchdogging is not a popular sport here, as it takes time, bring you a lot of enemies, strain friendships and brings pain to certain people much more eager to celebrate life. Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 25, 2009, 07:34:12 PM
"The issue involving the custody of this boy is complex and full of details, but if we keep aside the emotions and search for info on both sides we will see that the laws favour the father's right. I am a friend and have been acquainted with people from the Lins e Silva family. Even so, after getting information about the case, I am stunned with the actions taken by João Paulo Lins e Silva. By the way, the only way to receive information on the case if through the father's side. The Lins e Silva are threatening to sue everyone that publish...                                                                                                            (http://bringseanhome.org/forum/images/buttons/quote.gif) (http://bringseanhome.org/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=564)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 25, 2009, 07:34:59 PM
Quote from: joey2051;564
Can someone who speaks Portugese please translate this(already tried auto-but want more detail)
 
A questão envolvendo a posse e a guarda desse menino é complexa e cheia de detalhes, mas se deixarmos de lado o emocional e buscarmos informações nos dois lados da questão veremos que as leis protegem o direito do pai. Sou amigo e convivi com pessoas da família Lins e Silva, mesmo assim ao me informar sobre o caso fiquei estarrecido com as ações do João Paulo Lins e Silva.Aliás, a única forma de se informar é através do lado paterno. Os Lins e Silva estão ameaçando processar todos que publicarem

"The issue involving the custody of this boy is complex and full of details, but if we keep aside the emotions and search for info on both sides we will see that the laws favour the father's right. I am a friend and have been acquainted with people from the Lins e Silva family. Even so, after getting information about the case, I am stunned with the actions taken by João Paulo Lins e Silva. By the way, the only way to receive information on the case if through the father's side. The Lins e Silva are threatening to sue everyone that publish...
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: FC_Florida on February 25, 2009, 07:37:56 PM
Quote from: joey2051;564
Can someone who speaks Portugese please translate this(already tried auto-but want more detail)
 
A questão envolvendo a posse e a guarda desse menino é complexa e cheia de detalhes, mas se deixarmos de lado o emocional e buscarmos informações nos dois lados da questão veremos que as leis protegem o direito do pai. Sou amigo e convivi com pessoas da família Lins e Silva, mesmo assim ao me informar sobre o caso fiquei estarrecido com as ações do João Paulo Lins e Silva.Aliás, a única forma de se informar é através do lado paterno. Os Lins e Silva estão ameaçando processar todos que publicarem

I will try my best to interpret the quote, not an ispsis literis translation so it makes some sense:
 
"The issue behind the custody is complex and full of details. However, if we set aside the emotional feelings  and dwelve deep into both sides of the story, we'll find that the law protects the father's rights.
I'm a friend and I know some members of the Lins e Silva family but as I've learned about the case I've become more shocked with Joao Paulo Lins e Silva's actions. They (Lins e Silva Family) are threatening to sue those who publish the story. That's why the only way to get information is through the father's side."
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 25, 2009, 07:53:27 PM
Now we know that they are using their power and threateing to sue people. I hope that when David does get Sean that lins e silva trys to come to the U.S. and start some ****, cuz that won't fly, and I hope if he does, David throws some things at him to make him stuck in the U.S.......but that's all sepculating..........
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 25, 2009, 07:54:07 PM
Just waiting...
 
One journalist from a very serious and famous newspaper in Brazil told me that they will publish tomorrow an article about the repercussion of Sean's case in the US. It will be big, and maybe in the front page !!!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Teena on February 25, 2009, 08:00:24 PM
Quote from: Claudia.Hope;576
Just waiting...
 
One journalist from a very serious and famous newspaper in Brazil told me that they will publish tomorrow an article about the repercussion of Sean's case in the US. It will be big, and maybe in the front page !!!

That sounds great Claudia!! Please keep us posted!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 25, 2009, 08:02:57 PM
Here is he article, please feel free to translate( I am not very good in it :-( !
 
Jornal O GLOBO - O GLOBO NEWSPAPER - today feb 25th
 
Court battle creates tension in relations between U.S. and Brazil, NYT

Batalha judicial cria tensão nas relações entre EUA e Brasil, diz NYT
Disputa por guarda de filho de brasileira com americano pode ser discutida entre Hillary Clinton e Celso Amorim.
 disputa pela guarda do menino Sean Goldman, filho de uma brasileira com um americano que foi levado pela mãe para o Brasil há quatro anos, vem causando tensão nas relações entre Brasil e Estados Unidos, segundo reportagem publicada nesta quarta-feira pelo jornal americano New York Times

.

O diário cita funcionários e ex-funcionários do Departamento de Estado americano ao afirmar que o tema pode fazer parte da agenda do encontro entre o ministro das Relações Exteriores, Celso Amorim, e a secretária de Estado americana, Hillary Clinton, nesta quarta-feira à tarde.

O encontro é preparatório para a reunião marcada entre os presidentes Barack Obama e Luis Inácio Lula da Silva, no mês que vem.

Segundo o NYT

, Bruna Ribeiro, a mãe de Sean, viajou com o filho para o Brasil em junho de 2004. O marido, David Goldman, ia encontrá-los uma semana depois, mas, antes disso, Bruna telefonou para o marido, pediu o divórcio e informou que ela e o menino ficariam no Brasil.

"Com aquele telefonema, a família Goldman entrou em um importante caso de sequestro e guarda internacional que segue nas cortes brasileiras e americanas e agora chegou aos mais altos níveis do governo Obama", afirma a reportagem.

Depois de deixar o marido, Bruna Ribeiro se casou com o advogado que a representou no divórcio e morreu no parto da segunda filha, no ano passado.

O pai do menino viajou para o Brasil dias depois, na tentativa de recuperar a guarda do filho, mas a Justiça brasileira concedeu a guarda de Sean ao viúvo de Bruna, João Paulo Lins e Silva.

"No centro da confusão diplomática está o modo como o Brasil está lidando com o caso sob um tratado internacional que cuida do sequestro de crianças", afirma o jornal.

O caso está atraindo a atenção da mídia e do público nos Estados Unidos, diz o diário, e há duas resoluções pendentes no Congresso americano exigindo que o Brasil repatrie Sean, que já tem oito anos de idade.

Em agosto de 2004, um juiz da Corte Superior de Nova Jérsei, onde morava a família Goldman, decidiu que os esforços de Bruna para manter o filho no Brasil iam contra a lei e ordenou a repatriação imediata do menino, nascido nos Estados Unidos.

No mês seguinte, depois de a mãe se recusar a cumprir a ordem do juiz americano, o advogado de Goldman notificou a seção do Departamento de Estado que ajuda cidadãos americanos no caso de sequestro de crianças, diz o NYT

.

"Os Estados Unidos e o Brasil estão entre os 68 países que assinaram um tratado, conhecido como a Convenção de Sequestro de Haia, que estabelece um mecanismo para os países signatários para resolver os casos internacionais de sequestro de crianças", afirma o NYT

.

"Sob a convenção, os países concordam que uma criança que tenha sido removida de um país signatário por um dos pais e mantida em outro país signatário, em violação aos direitos de custódia do outro progenitor, deve ser devolvida imediatamente. Uma vez que a criança tenha sido devolvida, a disputa pela guarda pode ser resolvida pelos tribunais deste país. O tratado determina onde os casos de custódia devem ser julgados, mas não tenta determinar que deve ter a guarda."

Segundo o NYT

, o Departamento de Estado já enviou o caso ao governo brasileiro, de quem espera cooperação.

O pai do menino também entrou com processo na Justiça brasileira, mas apesar de um juiz federal ter concordado que a transferência de Sean para o Brasil ocorreu de forma ilegal, ele determinou que o menino deve ficar no país, onde já está adaptado.

"Várias autoridades americanas em Washington e no Brasil - incluindo congressistas, funcionários de alto nível do Departamento de Estado e o embaixador americano em Brasília - já se reuniram com Goldman para ajudá-lo na disputa e demonstrar seu apoio", diz o NYT

.

"Nos últimos três anos, o Departamento de Estado citou o Brasil por não cumprir o tratado de sequestro. O Departamento criticou as cortes brasileiras por tratar casos (da convenção) de Haia como disputas de guarda, adiando desnecessariamente os casos e demonstrando parcialidade injusta a favor dos cidadãos brasileiros, particularmente mães."

Segundo informações do Departamento de Estado publicadas pelo NYT

, há cerca de 50 casos relacionados à Convenção de Haia com crianças sequestradas nos Estados Unidos e levadas para o Brasil.

Neste mês, o caso voltou à Justiça Federal brasileira, onde deverá ser tratado como um caso da Convenção de Haia, afirmam os advogados de Goldman.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: FC_Florida on February 25, 2009, 08:05:15 PM
Are you talking about Folha de São Paulo?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 25, 2009, 08:06:52 PM
Making the long story short,
 
They said in the end: Brazil(STF) will comply the Hague Treaty.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 25, 2009, 08:08:45 PM
FC Florida,
No, is another newspaper but I will post tomorrow, I am scared if I provide the name here and L&S reading this information could try to do something against this newspaper...
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Bob D'Amico on February 25, 2009, 08:11:00 PM
That's from G1 - Notice the name Lins e Silva is missing.........

O Globo Rio edition has NO names, except at the end they state simply "Sean."

Something else missing, the original New York Times article has the link to BringSeanHome.org. :rolleyes:

Claudia I hope your journalist friend has the opportunity to report the WHOLE story rather than the censored articles in O Globo.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 25, 2009, 08:12:37 PM
Now you see why David has been so afraid to go to Brazil, God only knows what these people will try next.  I think Hillary should escort him this next time.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: FC_Florida on February 25, 2009, 08:17:51 PM
Quote from: Claudia.Hope;584
FC Florida,
No, is another newspaper but I will post tomorrow, I am scared if I provide the name here and L&S reading this information could try to do something against this newspaper...

I get it! One can never be too careful, let alone with those creeps.:)
I hope they do such a great job with the story that the major TV news outlets decide to pick the story up and do some coverage as well.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 25, 2009, 08:25:13 PM
Quote from: Bob D'Amico;586
That's from G1 - Notice the name Lins e Silva is missing.........
 
O Globo Rio edition has NO names, except at the end they state simply "Sean."
 
Something else missing, the original New York Times article has the link to BringSeanHome.org. :rolleyes:
 
Claudia I hope your journalist friend has the opportunity to report the WHOLE story rather than the censored articles in O Globo.

Hi Bob,
Did you the article above?
This is a very good article and they put the names on.
 
This journalist is a very good professional and I am sure he will do his best, in addition he will get information with his correspondent in Washington DC , he will report the repercussion about the case.
 
I am hopeful !!:D
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: FC_Florida on February 25, 2009, 08:25:26 PM
Quote from: Bob D'Amico;586
That's from G1 - Notice the name Lins e Silva is missing.........
 
O Globo Rio edition has NO names, except at the end they state simply "Sean."
 
Something else missing, the original New York Times article has the link to BringSeanHome.org. :rolleyes:
 
Claudia I hope your journalist friend has the opportunity to report the WHOLE story rather than the censored articles in O Globo.

Yes Bob, the names are missing. What a shame! Curiously, when I read the Globo's article the first version had Bruna's name, even though it was Bruna Ribeiro instead of Bruna Bianchi or Bruna Lins e Silva, which would have been much more recognizable. Then I came back to the forum and someone, I think it was Claudia.Hope, pointed out that the article was gone.:mad:
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 25, 2009, 08:43:55 PM
Does anybody know what school Sean goes to in Brazil????
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 25, 2009, 09:45:07 PM
REvista EPOCA / EPOCA MAGAZINE today feb 25th
 
http://colunas.epoca.globo.com/ofiltro/2009/02/
 
9. Guarda de garoto americano gera tensão entre Brasil e EUA
Um caso complexo em torno do garoto americano Sean Goldman, de 8 anos, pode ser um dos temas do encontro (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/25/nyregion/25custody.html?scp=2&sq=Brazil&st=cse) entre o chanceler brasileiro, Celso Amorim, e a secretária de Estado dos EUA, Hillary Clinton, de acordo com o The New York Times. Sean, filho do americano David Goldman com a brasileira Bruna Ribeiro, foi trazido pela mãe ao Rio de Janeiro em 2004. David viria uma semana depois, mas nesse meio tempo Bruna ligou para o marido, pediu divórcio e avisou que ficaria com a criança no Brasil. Bruna casou-se com o advogado João Paulo Lins e Silva e morreu no ano passado, por complicações de parto da filha que teve com o brasileiro. A Justiça brasileira deu a guarda de Sean a João Paulo, contrariando ordem judicial americana, de 2004, determinando a repatriação do garoto.
Mundo
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 25, 2009, 11:11:29 PM
G1 globo minutes ago...
 
 
Amorim expressa a Hillary preocupação com medidas protecionistas dos EUA
 
 
 
 
Washington, 25 fev (EFE).- O ministro das Relações Exteriores, Celso Amorim, expressou hoje à secretária de Estado americana, Hillary Clinton, a preocupação do Brasil com a cláusula "Buy American" contida no plano de estímulo econômico, que privilegia a indústria dos Estados Unidos.
 
No primeiro encontro entre os dois como ministros, Amorim falou sobre a cláusula, que causou preocupação entre os parceiros comerciais dos Estados Unidos, incluindo Canadá e Europa, que a veem como uma medida protecionista.
 
Durante a reunião, que durou cerca de 40 minutos, Amorim disse a Hillary que o Brasil segue "com atenção e preocupação" o assunto, explicou posteriormente à imprensa.
 
O item, incluído no programa de estímulo econômico no valor de US$ 787 bilhões com o qual o Governo de Barack Obama quer combater a recessão no país, prioriza a aquisição de bens e serviços de empresas nacionais.
 
A versão final da disposição especifica que os Estados Unidos respeitarão, em todo caso, as obrigações contraídas nos tratados comerciais internacionais.
 
O chanceler brasileiro foi o primeiro ministro latino-americano recebido por Hillary como secretária de Estado e foi seguido pouco depois pelo ministro de Exteriores colombiano, Jaime Bermúdez.
 
No encontro, a ex-primeira-dama citou o caso de David Goldman, um americano que luta há mais de quatro anos para recuperar seu filho, Sean.
 
Sua esposa, Bruna, o levou ao Brasil quando tinha quatro anos e, no país, pediu o divórcio.
 
Ela morreu e um tribunal do Rio de Janeiro deu a guarda da criança ao segundo marido de Bruna, João Paulo Lins e Silva, e, nos Estados Unidos, o americano usava de todos os recursos legais para recuperar o filho.
 
O caso chegou às máximas instâncias dos Governos respectivos e Hillary destacou que o assunto é importante para sua Administração, segundo Amorim.
 
O chanceler afirmou que houve um avanço positivo para o pai, pois o caso passou à justiça federal, "que dá uma importância maior às convenções internacionais".
 
Um tratado ratificado por Brasil e Estados Unidos obriga Sean a voltar aos Estados Unidos, onde as cortes deverão determinar quem terá a custódia do menino, mas o Governo brasileiro não quis se intrometer no caso.
 
"É um assunto que está na justiça, do direito de família", afirmou Amorim, que não quis se pronunciar sobre o futuro do menino.
 
O Departamento de Estado, por sua vez, não divulgou detalhes do encontro.
 
Hillary disse apenas que tanto Brasil quanto Estados Unidos são países que "têm um grande número de oportunidades e responsabilidades", enquanto os fotógrafos tiravam fotos dos dois chanceleres antes da reunião.
 
Eles dedicaram boa parte do encontro entre Obama e o presidente Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, que ocorrerá em 17 de março em Washington, e a Cúpula das Américas, que será realizada em meados de abril em Trinidad e Tobago.
 
Amorim explicou a Hillary que uma mudança da política americana em relação a Cuba "seria muito importante" para melhorar o relacionamento dos Estados Unidos com a América Latina e o Caribe.
 
A Câmara de Representantes dos EUA aprovou hoje um projeto de lei que reduz as restrições de viagens dos cubano-americanos a Cuba impostas em 2004 pelo Governo de George W. Bush, mas a Administração de Obama não se pronunciou sobre a questão.
 
O porta-voz do Departamento de Estado, Robert Wood, informou hoje que o novo Governo está revisando atualmente a política americana em relação a América Latina e Cuba.
 
O ministro brasileiro pediu à ex-primeira-dama para que os Estados Unidos respeitem a diversidade dos países da região e não prescrevam soluções idênticas para seus problemas.
 
Além disso, sugeriu que dedique atenção ao desenvolvimento da energia, ao combate à mudança climática e à luta contra a fome na América Latina, acrescentou. EFE
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Hanna on February 25, 2009, 11:24:53 PM
I've been trying to go to www.oglobo.com (http://www.oglobo.com) unsucessfuly. I wonder what happened. www.globo.com (http://www.globo.com) is not up either....
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Bob D'Amico on February 26, 2009, 12:58:38 AM
Quote from: joey2051;595
Does anybody know what school Sean goes to in Brazil????

Yes we do - Any contact with Sean's school would only damage our campaign is therefore "out of bounds."
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: caique mateus on February 26, 2009, 03:35:41 AM
Yes, Bob. Please let's not make any move directly towards Sean. This is David's role, only. At this moment the pressure should be concentrated in Brazilian authorities and making Brazilian press get involved.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: mari on February 26, 2009, 07:52:51 AM
O Globo newspaper:
 
"Disputa por criança vira caso diplomático"
"Custódia de garoto nascido nos EUA e trazido por mãe basileira ao Rio é discutida entre Hillary e Amorim".
 
today in newspaper "O Globo", the biggest newspaper in Rio. The names aren't cited...
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 08:03:34 AM
yeah I know that, it's just that I ran across this website.......
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Mom25 on February 26, 2009, 08:04:58 AM
Quote from: joey2051;595
Does anybody know what school Sean goes to in Brazil????


Why!? What's your idea!?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Mom25 on February 26, 2009, 08:09:32 AM
Quote from: Bob D'Amico;635
Yes we do - Any contact with Sean's school would only damage our campaign is therefore "out of bounds."


That's right. That's why I was wondering what was the idea... because we can't (really!) go that way....

Please leave the "kids' environment" alone. ;)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 08:13:59 AM
I was just curious......didn't want anything to be done about it!!!!

I had ran across this website from some school in Rio and was curious....is it a religious school???
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 08:38:16 AM
If it is, or is this other one I saw; English is pretty stressed, and it seems more American in curriculum
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 26, 2009, 09:05:21 AM
Published today in the print and online version of "O Estado de São Paulo", best regarded Brazilian hard news daily. The story is by Patricia Campos Mello, Washington correspondent.

"Briga por guarda de menino ganha contornos de crise diplomática

Patrícia Campos Mello

O encontro do presidente Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva com o presidente americano, Barack Obama, em 17 de março, deverá acontecer em meio a um protesto contra o governo brasileiro em frente à Casa Branca. A manifestação está sendo organizada pelo grupo BringSeanHome, que luta pela repatriação do menino Sean Goldman, filho de David Goldman e da brasileira Bruna Bianchi Ribeiro.

O pai tenta há mais de quatro anos obter a devolução de seu filho, de 8 anos. David, que é americano, casou-se com Bruna em 1999. Sean nasceu em 2000. Quatro anos depois, a brasileira voltou ao Brasil com o filho, pediu o divórcio e entrou na Justiça pela guarda do menino.

A brasileira casou-se de novo em 2007 com o advogado João Paulo Lins e Silva. Em agosto passado, em decorrência de complicações no parto da filha, Bruna morreu. Sean continua vivendo com o padrasto, que se recusa a devolvê-lo.

"Espero que as autoridades brasileiras tomem a única decisão correta, de me reunir com meu filho", disse Goldman. "Não há desculpa nem explicação para o que está ocorrendo."

Ontem, a secretária de Estado americana, Hillary Clinton, falou do caso Goldman em sua reunião com o ministro de Relações Exteriores, Celso Amorim. "Ela disse que o caso é importante e sensível", disse Amorim. Ele voltou a enfatizar a posição brasileira de que "se trata de um assunto da Justiça". A Casa Branca não aceita essa posição e considera um caso regido por acordos internacionais, pela Convenção de Haia.

O caso Sean Goldman está mobilizando congressistas americanos e ameaça prejudicar as relações bilaterais. Há resoluções tramitando no Senado e na Câmara pedindo a devolução de Sean. Senadores recentemente propuseram uma resolução exigindo que o Brasil cumpra os requerimentos da Convenção de Haia e deixe Sean voltar a viver com pai.

Integrantes do grupo BringSeanHome dizem que há mais de 50 crianças americanas no Brasil na mesma situação. "Nós encorajamos todas as pessoas a entrar em contato com a secretária Hillary Clinton e o presidente Barack Obama antes da visita do presidente Lula, para que o sequestro de Sean faça parte da agenda do encontro", diz um e-mail enviado pela organização. "O Rio de Janeiro é uma das cidades finalistas para sediar as Olimpíadas de 2016 e nós queremos que o sequestro de Sean seja levado em conta na hora de escolher o vencedor", prossegue a carta."
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 26, 2009, 10:29:00 AM
Publicado hoje no "Estado de São Paulo", matéria da correspondente em Washington Patricia Campos Mello, com nomes e sobrenomes...

"Briga por guarda de menino ganha contornos de crise diplomática

Patrícia Campos Mello

O encontro do presidente Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva com o presidente americano, Barack Obama, em 17 de março, deverá acontecer em meio a um protesto contra o governo brasileiro em frente à Casa Branca. A manifestação está sendo organizada pelo grupo BringSeanHome, que luta pela repatriação do menino Sean Goldman, filho de David Goldman e da brasileira Bruna Bianchi Ribeiro.

O pai tenta há mais de quatro anos obter a devolução de seu filho, de 8 anos. David, que é americano, casou-se com Bruna em 1999. Sean nasceu em 2000. Quatro anos depois, a brasileira voltou ao Brasil com o filho, pediu o divórcio e entrou na Justiça pela guarda do menino.

A brasileira casou-se de novo em 2007 com o advogado João Paulo Lins e Silva. Em agosto passado, em decorrência de complicações no parto da filha, Bruna morreu. Sean continua vivendo com o padrasto, que se recusa a devolvê-lo.

"Espero que as autoridades brasileiras tomem a única decisão correta, de me reunir com meu filho", disse Goldman. "Não há desculpa nem explicação para o que está ocorrendo."

Ontem, a secretária de Estado americana, Hillary Clinton, falou do caso Goldman em sua reunião com o ministro de Relações Exteriores, Celso Amorim. "Ela disse que o caso é importante e sensível", disse Amorim. Ele voltou a enfatizar a posição brasileira de que "se trata de um assunto da Justiça". A Casa Branca não aceita essa posição e considera um caso regido por acordos internacionais, pela Convenção de Haia.

O caso Sean Goldman está mobilizando congressistas americanos e ameaça prejudicar as relações bilaterais. Há resoluções tramitando no Senado e na Câmara pedindo a devolução de Sean. Senadores recentemente propuseram uma resolução exigindo que o Brasil cumpra os requerimentos da Convenção de Haia e deixe Sean voltar a viver com pai.

Integrantes do grupo BringSeanHome dizem que há mais de 50 crianças americanas no Brasil na mesma situação. "Nós encorajamos todas as pessoas a entrar em contato com a secretária Hillary Clinton e o presidente Barack Obama antes da visita do presidente Lula, para que o sequestro de Sean faça parte da agenda do encontro", diz um e-mail enviado pela organização. "O Rio de Janeiro é uma das cidades finalistas para sediar as Olimpíadas de 2016 e nós queremos que o sequestro de Sean seja levado em conta na hora de escolher o vencedor", prossegue a carta."


This article above is what I was talking about yesterday, I could not reveal the name of the newspaper, but I knew that their correspondent in Washington DC  was making the article...First was going to be published on this next sunday but they chage their mind and decided to do it today. I told also that the journalist is a very good professional and here is the proof, he put all names !!!
Thank you Roger to post this article...so fast!:D
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 26, 2009, 11:33:59 AM
SteveW,
 
Gag orders are very hard to understand and to explain. Custody cases involving kids usually follow strict "court secrecy" rules. But each newspaper have its own Code of Ethics and are free to do so.
 
For example, Brazil has had more than its share of kidnapping cases involving rich adults, where money has been asked by professional thugs in exchange for the return of the victim. Well, some newspapers provide full details, names, dates, places, etc., while others don't publish anything at all because they feel they may put the victim's life at risk.
 
The gag order in David Goldman's case seem to have been granted by a the 13th. Rio de Janeiro State Civil Court that had no jurisdiction on the custody case brought before the 2nd. Rio de Janeiro State Family Law Court. This is as much public information as it has been made available in the press reports.
 
Some newspapers go ahead and challenge the courts by paying the fine and publishing everything, while others play the safer side.
 
Some other custody cases have been leaked and the local press made a bash out of it, but the vast majority of the cases do run under "court secrecy" and the press chooses not to report it based either on "not being willing to pay fines" or on their own Code of Ethics.
 
In this particular case there is in fact a ban for some publications issued by the 13th. Civil Court of Rio de Janeiro State, as I mentioned. The news outlets that are publishing the story are either not included in the gag order, paid the fines, or are publishing on their sole risk.
 
Such gag orders are very controversial within the press when they do not include minors and are issued based on political pressures.
 
To put it even more bluntly, every news outlet is reported to have a black list of issues that cannot be covered at the discretion of the owner of the publication.
 
So there is not an easy answer for most of these gag orders, but for David Goldman's gag order there is: a court order reportedly imposing hefty fines on David and some news outlets that had tried to publish the story.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Amazee on February 26, 2009, 11:49:00 AM
Is there a translation for this post Claudia Hope?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 11:49:13 AM
First, of all i think it is a good law in cusotdy cases, to protect the child, but this case is so much more, and should be a kidnapping case,


Can't David Say anything he wants in U.S., the U.S. would have to enforce the order, and that is against our constitutional rights,

you can''t ban free speech speach in U.S.!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 12:01:11 PM
Yes I know its past and done, but when this first happened could he have legally re-kidnap Sean, yes its not an option now, Sean is too old,too settled, and that would be too much for him.

I did some research on those groups who do that and everbody said it was a bad option and was illegal, but is it illegal? once he gets him back to U.S. their was a kidnapping charge agaisnt Bruna, and custody was awarded to David, and under U.S. law if Bruna wanted to fight for custody she would have to come to U.S. as the U.S. wouldn't extradite the case under the Hauge Convention, and she wouldn't win since they already awarded custody to David.  So within the first year wouldn't this have been a 1. legal??? and 2. viable option.....just curious.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 26, 2009, 12:11:09 PM
Joey,
 
I can't entertain this "option" in your second post, that's too much for me at once.

But you are absolutely right about the limits of anyone's jurisdiction. No Brazilian judge has jurisdiction on U.S. soil, and vice-versa. This is why David has been speaking on NBC, for instance.
 
If someone is being chased on civil and criminal charges, there are international cooperation between the judiciary authorities to ENFORCE orders overseas, hear witnesses, freeze assets.
 
Ultimately, if the U.S. Constitution did not protect free speech, there could have been cooperation between the judges in Brazil and in the U.S. to prevent him from speaking or otherwise his fines in Brazil could apply if he spoke up in the U.S.
 
But no country undertakes international obligations to enforce legal rulings against public policy, and for sure free speech in the U.S. falls into this category. Therefore, under no circumstances a U.S. judge would cooperate to enforce the Brazilian gag order.
 
But this is a tough issue, just ask Google the problems they have with gag orders in courts all over the world, especially in China.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 26, 2009, 12:21:40 PM
If I were David I would find someone to go get my son and bring him home.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 12:28:01 PM
I'm assuming he doesn't have a kidnapping charge on joao silva...correct...that was just on Bruna.....now he just fighting for custody with silva....that infuriates me as I know as he will recieve no punishment for what he did....
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 26, 2009, 12:35:25 PM
To Amazee, an unofficial translation:
 
"Battle for boy's custody gains contours of diplomatic crisis

Patrícia Campos Mello

The meeting by President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva with American President Barack Obama, on March 17, should take place amidst a rally against the Brazilian government in front of the White House. The protest is being organized by the group BringSeanHome, which fights for the repatriation of a boy named Sean Goldman, son of David Goldman and Brazilian Bruna Bianchi Ribeiro.

The father has been trying for more than four years to be granted the return of his 8-year-old son. David, who is American, married Bruna in 1999. Sean was born in 2000. Four years later, the Brazilian returned to Brazil, filed for divorce and went to court seeking custody of the boy.

The Brazilian was married again in 2007 to attorney João Paulo Lins e Silva. Last August, Bruna died after complications when giving birth to their daughter. Sean remains living with his stepfather, who refuses to return him.

"I hope the Brazilian authorities take the only right decision, reuniting myself with my son", said Goldman. "There is no excuse nor explanation for what is happening."

Yesterday, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton brought up Goldman's case during her meeting with Foreign Minister Celso Amorim. "She said the case is important and sensitive", said Amorim. He emphasized the Brazilian government's view that the matter is being handled by the Judicial Branch. The White House does not accept this position and treats the case as being governed by international treaties, by the Hague Convention.

Sean Goldman's case is drawing the attention of U.S. congressmen and threatens to harm bilateral relations. There are pending resolutions in the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives requesting Sean's return. Senators recently introduced a resolution demanding Brazil to comply with the Hague Convention and to allow Sean to live with his father again."

Members of the group BringSeanHome say that there are more than 50 American children in Brazil in the same situation. "We encouraged all people to get in contact with Secretary Hillary Clinton and President Barack Obama before the visit by President Lula, so that Sean's kidnapping is part of the meeting's agenda", reads one e-mail sent by the organization. "Rio de Janeiro is one of the finalist cities to host the 2016 Olympics and we want Sean's kidnapping to be taken into account at the time of choosing the winner", the letter follows.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 26, 2009, 01:05:51 PM
I'm glad the Olympics were mentioned.  Brazil would not want this to muddy the waters for them.  They have one of the best riders in the world representing Brazil and they would do anything to have the Olympics there, I think mentioning this in an email is a great idea.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Bob D'Amico on February 26, 2009, 01:24:36 PM
Quote from: joey2051;698
Yes I know its past and done, but when this first happened could he have legally re-kidnap Sean, yes its not an option now, Sean is too old,too settled, and that would be too much for him.

I did some research on those groups who do that and everbody said it was a bad option and was illegal, but is it illegal? once he gets him back to U.S. their was a kidnapping charge agaisnt Bruna, and custody was awarded to David, and under U.S. law if Bruna wanted to fight for custody she would have to come to U.S. as the U.S. wouldn't extradite the case under the Hauge Convention, and she wouldn't win since they already awarded custody to David.  So within the first year wouldn't this have been a 1. legal??? and 2. viable option.....just curious.

Joey,
That option is not ever good and it is 200% illegal, in the US and in the foreign country. Too dangerous for the child as well as the left behind parent. While it does happen occasionally the whole "snatch and run" scenario requires seeking out corrupt officials, police, border guards etc who can be bribed, getting double crossed, not bribing enough people, buying false documents, guns, and more guns.

The majority of former "Special Ops" who promote themselves as 'rescuers,' never actually served in the military, just "wannabee Rambos." Hell I think there must be ten thousand times more people that claimed they were 'Special Ops' than actually served in the military.

I've heard some horrible stories by parents who, in desperation, tried the snatch and go. All of them failed, the parent was mortified that they put their child in extreme danger and at the end realized they paid $$$,$$$ to people they normally wouldn't want to associate with or even let groom their Dog. ;)

There is absolutely no doubt that the Hague Treaty, worldwide, is a total failure. It rarely works as designed, every single country that is a signatory to the treaty does not fully comply. Even in the US there are major, MAJOR screw ups where state courts claim jurisdiction even though the US State Department intervenes. It's a total mess!

The only people doing well from the Hague Treaty are Family Lawyers. Like any profession there are outstanding, dedicated men and women who practice at the highest standards. Then there are the "others" whose main concern is money and more money and more money.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Jaboo on February 26, 2009, 01:50:47 PM
I think it is a matter of how people are presenting the case to the brazilians they have contact with.  
If you come across with the attitude that Brazil is a backwater third world country and that this case is just yet one more example of how corrupt and ineffectual things here are, then yes ofcourse people will get thier hackles raised and defend Brazil.
 
I on the other hand have been met with just the opposite response.  Nearly everyone (99.9%) of the people I have discussed this with has been just as outraged and disgusted as the rest of us.  The brazilian people dont like the idea of a rich and powerfull family manipulating the justice system for thier own personal aims anymore than we do.  The people in Brazil that know about this are far from complacent on the matter and are by and large supporting the return of Sean to the USA.
 
It is a matter of how you present the case to them.  If my kid breaks his neighbors window with a baseball and i go over there and start calling them a bunch of white trash rednecks, then yes you can be assured my complaints will not be met with a favorable response.  Let the facts stand on thier own.  This case is interesting enough as it is without having to resort to mudslinging and damning an entire country for the acts of a few misguided individuals.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 02:22:02 PM
even though i said "groups" I wound't say to use them, guns should never be involved.  I mean say if David just went down their himself (within the first year of course), followed them for a little while, and then just took Sean, yes that would probably be a bad idea, but wouldn't that be legal, I'm sure he has a visa for Sean to Return
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Jaboo on February 26, 2009, 02:25:10 PM
Sean doesnt need a visa. He is a US citizen
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 02:27:40 PM
and yes the Hauge convention is obviously broke, evident by the 50+ cases alone in Brazil, that they have pointed out on the recently-out Convention report; the problem is their not going to fix it, They have an agency for when it doesn't work, they shouldn't have to have a committee! they should make it so that it works in the first place.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Mom25 on February 26, 2009, 03:45:08 PM
Quote from: joey2051;728
even though i said "groups" I wound't say to use them, guns should never be involved.  I mean say if David just went down their himself (within the first year of course), followed them for a little while, and then just took Sean, yes that would probably be a bad idea, but wouldn't that be legal, I'm sure he has a visa for Sean to Return


Whether Sean has or not a visa to stay or return, it doesn't matter at this point. I mean, for ANY child to GET OUT of Brazil, regardless if the child is Brazilian, American , etc... the child MUST have an authorization signed by both parents to travel alone OR, the traveling parent must have the appropriate affidavit/authorization from the left-behind parent to travel with that child.

If that affidavit wasn't issued then, in some cases, they will accept at the airport the boarding pass/ticket of the first journey (one that shows that the child arrived from the US) AND the court papers (sworn-translated and stamped by the Brazilian consulate) showing that the traveling parent has SOLE CUSTODY and both have come from the USA and are now returning together to the USA.

They do this to avoid kids being taken away from Brazil for illegal adoptions, etc...

The authorization can be found here: Autorização de Viagem de Menor 2008 (http://www.abe.mre.gov.br/mundo/america-do-norte/estados-unidos-da-america/washington/servicos/formularios/menor010808.doc/view?portal_status_message=Changes%20saved.)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 05:16:31 PM
Yeah and the dual signature was is supposed to be in place to stop this from happening............
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Jaboo on February 26, 2009, 05:16:48 PM
Im sorry MOM that is not correct.  The travel authorization only applies to Brazilian citizens.  An american child needs no such papers either to enter or leave the country.  I personally have had numerous minor relatives from the USA travel here to visit and never not once was any type of papers required either to enter or leave Brazil.  
For a brazilian citizen however they need such a document to even take an intercity bus within the same state.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Hanna on February 26, 2009, 07:51:31 PM
Jaboo,

My kids have dual citizenship (just like Sean). When I travel to Brazil they are considered Brazilians so I must show an afidavit signed by my husband authorizing me to travel with our kids w/o him. They will not let me leave Brazil w/o that peace of paper.
When I leave the US no one asks for anything. As long as ONE parent has the child or children they can be taken anywhere outside the country. That is the reason why Bruna was able to kidnap Sean. Sometimes I wonder if laws here in the US should change in regards of a parents traveling w/o the other parent.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 26, 2009, 08:19:48 PM
Hi everyone, i´m brazilian, i´m from the state of Amazonas, sorry for my bad english.
 
 i have just read the article in the New York times and i´m feeling outragios because what this woman, Bruna, did with Sean and David, that was a terrible crime and i hope she is paying for it in the presence of the mighty Lord.
 
I´m a law student but i did not study adequately international law and its reflections in brazilian law, but i can say that the legal/constitucional system of Brazil, in the way that it is organized, don´t permitt the president Lula to simply send some police men and catch Sean to put him in a plane back to USA, even if the president Lula want it he can´t do this.  That is because de Judiciary Power was provocated to decide the case.
 
The Hage Convention must be observed by the judges that will analyse this case, and if the conventions is not being observed, soon or later, a judge or a court will note that and will decide in accordable with the Hage Convention. Brazil may not be a developed country, but is developed enough to its Judiciary Power decide in accordant to the national law and international law and will not decide with a nationalist or anti-american vision.
 
I read in a brazilian law website that the case is now in a Federal instance because the Union (the same as Brazil, when it is in a judicial issue) initiated a judicial proceeding in behalf of David, and the Union is doing this precisely because the Hage Convention must be respected. So, i think you people should stop saying that the brazilian government isn´t doing what he can because he IS doing what he can, observing the legal/constitucional brazilian system, in harmony with my knowledge of brazilian law.
 
that´s the link http://www.conjur.com.br/2009-fev-11/justica-federal-ira-julgar-americano-guarda-filho, for someone with a better english to translate.
 
I hope Sean come back home soon.
 
my compliments to everybody
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 09:24:48 PM
You say their doing everything they can do.......he hadn't seen him in FOUR YEARS.......sure there doing everything they within their system but their system is slow, the government does need to fix that.........and they have numerous times made the wrong descion because of bribery and influneces, they are Not doing the right thing........A judge has gone against the convention, that is not doing the most you can.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 26, 2009, 09:34:31 PM
Quote from: joey2051;788
You say their doing everything they can do.......he hadn't seen him in FOUR YEARS.......sure there doing everything they within their system but their system is slow, the government does need to fix that.........and they have numerous times made the wrong descion because of bribery and influneces, they are Not doing the right thing........A judge has gone against the convention, that is not doing the most you can.

 
if a wrong decision was made, it was a judge who made, The Brazilian Governent is an entity, the Judiciary Power is another entity, the only thing the Brazilian Government can do is initiate a judicial proceeding against the stepfather and that is exactly what the Governement is doing.
 
Let´s hope the judges decide in accordance to the Hague Convention and allow Sean to visit his son. In this matters, the Bralian Government don´t have the power to order the judge to let David visit his son.
 
It´s true that sometimes bribery and influences interferes in the brazilian judicial system, but, in the biggest part of cases, that involves a politic person with high influence. I don´t know any case of "bribery" or "influece" envolving a family just because it is a rich family, especialy when the case is being analysed by a Federal Instance or the Brazilian Supreme Court.
 
I´m on your side joey, i am just trying to explain how the brazilian legal system works. By the way, the brazilian legal system was high influenced by the U.S. legal system of legal/consitucional governement organisation, so it´s not so different.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 26, 2009, 09:43:28 PM
peharps you are right if we see this case from the following side:
 
it takes 4 years for the Union starts a judicial proceeding against Lins, maybe the this slowness is a great failure of the Brazilian Government. However, this case is taking high proportions just now, possibly there are many reasons for this slowness. Initial lack of interest of the Brazilian Governement could be one of them.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 10:51:33 PM
Yes, that is the problem, it's slow....because its broke
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 26, 2009, 10:56:41 PM
For those who are concerned about the bribery or "influences", there is 3 major reasons that I believe why bribery will not take part in this case:
 
1) there is no bribe or influence in this country capable to match against the Government interests. In this case, the brazilian government is against the stepfather, the government initiated a judicial proceeding to take back Sean to his father.
 
2) as far as know, the Lins/Ribeiro family has no political power. The bribe has high chance of sucess if it is being given by a powerful politician. But, it is better to this information be confirmed by someone who lives in Rio de Janeiro to conffirm if this family don´t have political power neither have strong, a very very strong relationship, with a powerful politician.
 
3) this case is being analysed by a Federal instance. Corruption in the brazilian Judiciary Power usually happens in the State instance. And is even more difficult (i think it´s impossible) to happen in the Supreme Court, even with a powerful politician. This case will be analysed by the Brazilian Supreme Court because the Union (the Government) is taking part in the judicial proceeding, if the first (federal) instance make a decision favourable to the stepfather.
 
So, the formula to the bribe have high chance of success in brazilian legal system, in general, is: to be a powerful politician + State Instance judicial proceeding + not fight against someone more powerful than you (in this case, the Union). The Lins´s familiy don´t fulfil any of this requirements.
 
That´s why I believe that only the Law will influence in this case.
 
I will be very pleased to answer any questions that you people might have about brazilian law. I´m just a student but I have 150 law books in my personal library and I will find the answer.
 
My email is andrefelipe232@hotmail.com (andrefelipe232@hotmail.com), add me if you wish.
my compliments to everybody
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 11:22:26 PM
The case just recently went to the Federal Court, something David had to fight very, very, hard and long for.

Before that it WAS in the Rio state court, where bribery could have taken place, and you can't say that the Rio state court wasn't necessarily against the Lins E silva.

The judge who made the "bad decision" was a judge in the State Court. and if I remember correctly (not too sure, don't quote on this part) he has been promoted to a "federal judge" and is know the one handling David's case on the Federal level!  (can someone verify this for me!!)  If that isn't corrupt I don't know what is
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 26, 2009, 11:26:13 PM
that´s impossible a State judge be promoted to a Federal judge. A State judge can only be promoted to a Desembargador (a second instance state judge).
 
State and Federal instance are completely separeted. There is no way a judge be promotode to one or another.
 
One more time joey, please, don´t say something about my country without the necessary knowledge.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 11:29:50 PM
ok, well i had stated I wasn't sure about that, but yes, the case has been in state court pretty much the whole entire time
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 26, 2009, 11:32:47 PM
we can only accuse the state judge to be corrupted with the necessary proofs, so we can´t say that state judge was bribed or influenced by the money of the Lins family, but, i won´t be surprised if, in the future, someone discovers that there were in fact, bribe to this judge, for the reasons that i hava already mentioned.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 26, 2009, 11:44:25 PM
Yes I'm not really sure about how the system works should I should probably stop inferencing things.

Here is an article that lists everything legally that has happen so far until Silva filed for a gag order against David.  If you have time to read it at all; would like to here your interpretation of it all,

Portugese
http://www.conjur.com.br/2008-nov-03/americano_briga_brasileiro_guarda_filho

English
http://bringseanhome.org/consultorjur%C3%ADdico.html
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 26, 2009, 11:57:13 PM
In Brazil, every judicial proceeding involving a underage kid (under 18) is submitted by the "segredo de justiça" (kind of secret judicial proceeding) wich means that it cannot be discussed outside the proceeding, especialy on the press or any other way.
 
I can only completely understand why this (state) judge Marise decided in this way if I read the judicial proceeding, and that is impossible now. I can only say that her decision has a legal basement, wich do not allow us to accuse her of corruption only because she decided on that way, but, as I sayed before, that ´s a possibility.
 
joey, i will be very glad to answer any of your question but i think this forun is not the suitable space, with some exceptions like the rumoures of the promotion of the state judge to federal judge. My email is andrefelipe232@hotmail.com (andrefelipe232@hotmail.com).
 
Edit: in this link that you showed, one of the commentators said that the federal judge has took a decision alowing David to visit his son, but the visit didn´t ocurred and the reason was not explained, i would like someone to conffirm this.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: rachelle4 on February 27, 2009, 12:22:59 AM
Andre, here is why David did not see Sean in October.


"On October 17, David Goldman landed in Rio to visit his son. His attorney informed João Paulo’s attorney of his arrival. It was raining heavily, which resulted in the Judge determining that the visit should start on Saturday morning. Saturday morning, October 18, three Court officials, two Federal Police officers, a representative of the American Consulate, and Goldman’s attorney accompanied the American.
 

David Goldman was not able to see his son. He was told that in the apartment where João Paulo lives with the two children, as per Justice records, only the baby born in August, Bruna’s parents and her brother were at home. In the following week, João Paulo told a friend of his that he did not know that the American was coming to Brazil and that is why he travelled to Búzios with the boy. David stayed a few more days in Brazil until he was informed that the visit would be postponed."


Come on! David's attorney informed João Paulo’s attorney of his arrival. Obviously, João Paulo abducted Sean to Búzios so that David could not see him.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 12:28:03 AM
that is very suspicious indeed, i hope David´s attorney managed to informe the judge against this action took by Joao Paulo so the judge can take the legal steps to punish him. But, the judge won´t know this if the attorney doesn´t reveal this to him.
 
It´s now 1:28 am, and i must wake up at 7:00!! i will watch this history closely, and I want to maintein contact with you people through the email. I think the private messenger of this forun is not working. Good night everyone.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Bo1 on February 27, 2009, 03:42:30 AM
Quote from: André Felipe;821
that is very suspicious indeed, i hope David´s attorney managed to informe the judge against this action took by Joao Paulo so the judge can take the legal steps to punish him. But, the judge won´t know this if the attorney doesn´t reveal this to him.
 
It´s now 1:28 am, and i must wake up at 7:00!! i will watch this history closely, and I want to maintein contact with you people through the email. I think the private messenger of this forun is not working. Good night everyone.

André;

I'm an american that's been here in Brazil for close to a decade and am very familiar with the brazilian judicial system. The judge in Rio knew that JPLS fled with Sean and did not allow David to visit Sean although the judge ordered the visitation. We're talking about the Lins e Silva family André and in the state courts in Rio de Janeiro. As of yet there have been no consequences of JPSL's defiance of a judges (court) order. I know why and you know why. Whether you want to admit it or not is another question.

Quote
And is even more difficult (i think it´s impossible) to happen in the Supreme Court, even with a powerful politician.

Well André, I'm sure that you're aware that politicians in this country (Brasil) are tried in a different court than everyone else, the STF (supremo tribunal federal). In all of the corruption trials against all of the brazilian politicians since it's existance can you, or anyone, tell me how many have been convicted?


ZERO!



Now, you or anyone else can call that what you will but you certainly can't call it "justice".
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 07:07:41 AM
you didn´t tell if the Lins family hava political power.
 
I don´t know why there have been no consequences for the JPSL´s act, I will only know if I read the proceeding or David or his attorney tell me exactely the procedures they had took to inform the judge and ask for a punishment, and if you aren´t following closely this judicial proceeding, you also don´t know why, you can only conjecture.
 
The Federal Justice in Brazil is less susceptible to corruption, but it´s not impossible to happen there.
 
As you live here in Brazil, you know that you can turn on the tv and set the TV Justice Channel and you can watch, a live, what the ministers of the Supreme Court are deciding now. Every day, every judgment of the Supreme Court is televised, and everyone can hear the argumments that made them decide, and usually they take hours to decide, with a lot of explanation.
 
Corrupts politicians produces so many judicial proceedings that is overcharging the Supreme Court cause it doesn´t have the structure to deal with such demand, every case I followed of unpunishment of a certain corrupt politician, I find a reason that don´t allow me to think that it was a case of corruption. But that is a very complex matter for me to explain to you in this forun, perharps via email I can answer. The ministers of the Supreme Court are very powerfull, they have reached the top of their careers, they ´ve become "legends", so, accepting briberying of anyone, especialy a rich familiy from Rio, as rich as many other family, is a unnecessary risk for these Judges. They don´t need this.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Bo1 on February 27, 2009, 07:18:15 AM
Quote from: André Felipe;826
As you live here in Brazil, you know that you can turn on the tv and set the TV Justice Channel and you can watch, a live, what the ministers of the Supreme Court are deciding now. Every day, every judgment of the Supreme Court is televised, and everyone can hear the argumments that made them decide, and usually they take hours to decide, with a lot of explanation.
 
Corrupts politicians produces so many judicial proceedings that is overcharging the Supreme Court cause it doesn´t have the structure to deal with such demand, every case I followed of unpunishment of a certain corrupt politician, I find a reason that don´t allow me to think that it was a case of corruption. But that is a very complex matter for me to explain to you in this forun, perharps via email I can answer. The ministers of the Supreme Court are very powerfull, they have reached the top of their careers, they ´ve become "legends", so, accepting briberying of anyone, especialy a rich familiy from Rio, as rich as many other family, is a unnecessary risk for these Judges. They don´t need this.

The decisions may be public, but the way in which each supreme cout judge votes in respect to convicting or acquitting a politician is held by SECRET BALLOT! In other words, NO ONE knows which judge voted to convict and which judge voted to acquit. But the fact remains, NOT ONE Brazilian politician in the history of the STF has EVER been convicted of corruption!

That's absurd. And even the Brazilians I know fully admit that it's uma grande vergonha. The root problem in this country isn't corruption, it's impunity. And I'm quite familiar with supreme court justices and their families. I was in one of their apartments over the X-mas break. My best brazilian friend here who is also one of our lawyers, his uncle is a minister for the STE.

As far as the Lins e Silva family having political clout, do you know who they are? Go to their website and you can see PLS experience, positions held, etc. Also, PLS father or uncle used to be a supreme court justice......does that answer your question?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 27, 2009, 07:36:23 AM
Dear Andre Felipe,
 
I'm also a Brazilian attorney who has been following the case from the outside.
 
Without getting to the merits of your arguments, I just want to call your attention to a mistake you certainly did not want to make, and I would like to correct it at this time:
 
When they were speaking about a State Judge that was "promoted" to Federal Judge they were referring to STJ Justice Luis Felipe Salomão, who was a State Appelate Judge ("Desembargador Estadual") in the State Courts of Rio de Janeiro.
 
So you're right when you say a State Judge cannot be technically promoted to the Federal Level. But he or she can be appointed by the President, as any other citizen between 35 and 65 years old, meritable legal background, and clean personal record.
 
Already as a STJ Justice, he apparently rendered a decision denying visitation rights to David, and about a month later called on a mediation hearing that took place in February. This was the now famous five-hour mediation hearing at the STJ when U.S. Congressman Smith was present and David was finally allowed the successful visitation that took place earlier this February.
 
Then, it can be said that Justice Salomão's appointment to the STJ or STF was indeed a promotion, just as if, drawing a parallel with the U.S. system, a State Judge is appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court by the President. In the U.S. that's not common: here in Brazil it is quite common.
 
For all foreigners: you should not say it out loud here that our system does not work, it's very slow, subject to a lot of nasty stuff that happens in the third world country. This will divert Brazilians willing to help David's cause because there is a great chance of aggravating a lot of us.
 
I also have a laundry list of problems that the international legal community sees in the U.S. legal system. I just won't go through here because I think this diverts everyone from David's cause.
 
Don't make this a U.S. vs. Brazil legal issue, because it is not. It is a matter of applying correctly the Hague Convention, and all courts worldwide has a poor record in this respect. Our Hague record may just be the worst around, but that doesn't make anyone else also failing look better.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Bo1 on February 27, 2009, 07:49:42 AM
Point taken Roger, the focus needs to be directed in resolving this particular issue. But the larger picture is that Brazil needs to start enforcing the Hague Council's rules or not be allowed to participate. Simple as that. And although there may be other countries that don't enforce the Hague the way it should be, let's not use that as a scapegoat for Brazil's unwillingness to comply and enforce. Brazil's Hague record is abysmal.

As far as "foreigners" go, I guess, especially from my experience, I'm clumped in that category. Although I've been living in Brazil for a decade, have a brazilian/american child, was married to a brazilian and currently engaged to another, have a Brazilian business and have made a significant investment in Brazil, not to mention have been paying amongst the highest taxes on planet earth for a decade as well as turning in my current permanent visa and going through the process to become a "full fledged brazilian citizen".


And the consensus of people here is exactly that.....I'm a foreigner, so don't complain. Truly a difficult concept to swallow.



And I agree 100% that this is NOT a Brazil vs. USA issue. It's a Brazil vs. the "rest of the world" issue. They don't discriminate on country. The attitude is simply that the Brazilian gets awarded the children and the foreigner gets the shaft.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 27, 2009, 07:52:47 AM
Again, STJ and STF have become more open in the past to the public, but that does not mean that "embargos auriculares" (or "appeals to the ears") no longer exist. One of the hottest issues in STF right now is to stop the revolving door that exists after a justice retires. Some justices just want to get rid of this nasty but rather common door.
 
To those blasting our system: doesn't it sound familiar to the end of the DC revolving door proposed by Barack Obama? I won't comment about the level of corruption, which I assume is much less in the DC than it is in Brasilia based on anecdotal evidence, but promiscuity in political/judicial/lobbying circles seems to be present in every world capital.
 
As I said, this discussion will lead us nowhere as far as helping out David, and I guess David would like us to end it here
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 27, 2009, 07:57:25 AM
Bo,
 
Paying the highest taxes on planet earth with nothing in return makes you a Brazilian, how come it doesn't? :)
 
Don't take no for an answer because you're a foreigner. I'm in my mid thirties and I'm VERY CYNICAL about this whole political/legal arena, but even I feel like things changed as far as consumer rights, relations with the tax authorities, police stations getting cleaned up... it's the court's problems if the legal system is clogged beyond belief.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tweinstein on February 27, 2009, 07:58:05 AM
Quote from: Hanna;771
Jaboo,

My kids have dual citizenship (just like Sean). When I travel to Brazil they are considered Brazilians so I must show an afidavit signed by my husband authorizing me to travel with our kids w/o him. They will not let me leave Brazil w/o that peace of paper.
When I leave the US no one asks for anything. As long as ONE parent has the child or children they can be taken anywhere outside the country. That is the reason why Bruna was able to kidnap Sean. Sometimes I wonder if laws here in the US should change in regards of a parents traveling w/o the other parent.

I experienced the exact same thing. There are a few things you need to consider however. Bruna did not kidnap Sean by leaving the United States without David's permission. The majority of abductors go with their spouse's permission under the premise of a vacation. Also, under Brazilian law, by virtue of my children's mother, our children are considered Brazilian. I think they changed the law recently, but I was obligated to get a Brazilian passport for them so that they could travel to Brazil with their mother. Even if she traveled on her U.S. passport, Brazil would have reacted the same way because is indicates that she was born in Brazil.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Bo1 on February 27, 2009, 07:59:43 AM
Quote from: roger;834
Again, STJ and STF have become more open in the past to the public, but that does not mean that "embargos auriculares" (or "appeals to the ears") no longer exist. One of the hottest issues in STF right now is to stop the revolving door that exists after a justice retires. Some justices just want to get rid of this nasty but rather common door.
 
To those blasting our system: doesn't it sound familiar to the end of the DC revolving door proposed by Barack Obama? I won't comment about the level of corruption, which I assume is much less in the DC than it is in Brasilia based on anecdotal evidence, but promiscuity in political/judicial/lobbying circles seems to be present in every world capital.
 
As I said, this discussion will lead us nowhere as far as helping out David, and I guess David would like us to end it here


And there it is...the brazilian justification. And you're right, it unquestionably exists. It kind of hits home although to people when one starts talking about gross violations of human rights and especially those of children. You really don't see too much of that in the U.S. and it's certainly not accepted and/or justified.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Bo1 on February 27, 2009, 08:02:22 AM
Quote from: roger;835
Bo,
 
Paying the highest taxes on planet earth with nothing in return makes you a Brazilian, how come it doesn't? :)
 
Don't take no for an answer because you're a foreigner. I'm in my mid thirties and I'm VERY CYNICAL about this whole political/legal arena, but even I feel like things changed as far as consumer rights, relations with the tax authorities, police stations getting cleaned up... it's the court's problems if the legal system is clogged beyond belief.


I'll agree with you on the 1st two counts, consumer rights, relations with tax authorities, not too sure about the police stations, at least in my neck of the woods. I've seen changes but it's certainly been slow and was in desperate need. Things are improving in certain areas but there is still a lot of work to be done.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 27, 2009, 08:30:57 AM
Bo1,
 
If you saw the Brazilian posting comments in the Goldman pieces ran in O Globo's online edition, you'll see that the vast majority of them were wildly in favour of David's right for permanent custody and blasted the paper for not running names of the powerful and influential people. In fact, a lot of comments had a very cynical of our system and no one was shy to name the names that the paper could not.
 
Even though they also took the opportunity to say a few more words about everything else they don't like in Brazil, in the courts, in the world, so the support for David and against the LeS power and influence case got kind of lost in the middle of all the complaining...
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 10:04:33 AM
Bo1, i think you never watched the Tv Justice Channel, because it´s quite obviously that not only the decisions are public, but also the way in which each supreme court judge votes in respect to convicting or acquitting a politician or anyone else, every single word they say is taped on TV and written to be published in the STF´s web site and the Official Diary of the Union.
 
It´s a fact that the Supreme Court has never convicted a corrupt politician, but the reasons for that, as I said before, are too complex to make us think that the prime reason is corruption, perharps some of these judicial proceeding envolves corruption, but, until someone proof it, it is not the reason. And countless corrupted politicians have been convicted in others instances, so, you cannot say that the whole system is vicious, or that there is 100 % of chance to the Daniel´s judicial proceeding is going to be affected by corruption.
 
Talking about the corruption, using this as the reason for Brazil "maintain" Sean here will only damage Sean´s cause in Brazil, and will not get brazilian support, cause the corruption in judicial system is not pandemic. People here will see this as prejudice from the american people, and that will not help at all Sean´s cause.
 
in another moment i will investigate better the website of the stepfather.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 27, 2009, 11:50:49 AM
Just a general point I want to make here.

After all the hell David has gone through; when he goes down their with a U.S. Congressmen who creates a bill in congress, he finally gets visitation,  Can you explain that legally?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 11:59:34 AM
Quote from: joey2051;878
Just a general point I want to make here.
 
After all the hell David has gone through; when he goes down their with a U.S. Congressmen who creates a bill in congress, he finally gets visitation, Can you explain that legally?

from the (brazilian) legal point of view, the presence of the U.S. congressmen has nothing to do with the decision of the judge that allowed David visit his son.
 
Even if this judge is "influenced" by the money of the Lins family (and that must be proof), the presence of the congressmen won´t make difference to the judge decide favourable or non favourable to David. The judge doesn´t have to give satisfaction about his judicial decisions to any brazilian, much less to a foreign person, independently of his post or nationality.
 
The judge decided on that way because the law says that he can decide on this way.
 
Edit: if the judicial decision was substantiated by the judge, and all the judicial decision must be, the judge doesn´t have to give no other satisfaction to anyone.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 27, 2009, 12:03:55 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean "Can you explain that legally" because of course he can make any decision he wants, but that does tell to the idea that this is(or was) a battle of powers and influence(and influence does not necessarily mean money)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 12:09:13 PM
we can only know that if someone proofs that the Lins family used illegal ways to convince the judge to decide on a certain way but the presence of the u.s. congressman in the audience somehow intimidated the judge, and that is quite difficult to proof or to know.
 
But you people are free to think at any way you want, but express that opinion in public won´t be well received by brazilians, and won´t help Sean´s cause in Brasil.
 
We could also suspect (suspect, not proof) if there was corruption if the judge had decided in disagreement to the law, and that is easly to discover because every judicial decision in the country is published on the press.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Mom25 on February 27, 2009, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: Jaboo;760
Im sorry MOM that is not correct.  The travel authorization only applies to Brazilian citizens.  An american child needs no such papers either to enter or leave the country.  I personally have had numerous minor relatives from the USA travel here to visit and never not once was any type of papers required either to enter or leave Brazil.  
For a brazilian citizen however they need such a document to even take an intercity bus within the same state.


Hi Jaboo!

My kids have dual citizenship and passports, however, my stepkids don't. They are Americans only and they were required to provide the same authorization for travel with minor when we took them to Brazil (with their bio-dad only). I am not sure why, but that was clearly a requirement for them... and we have taken them about 3 times to Brazil with the same papers. Though it makes sense to not have these papers for them, I know - if the child came from the US, and it has an US passport only, that child should return to the US with no questions asked...  however, when the child has BOTH passports/citizenships, I know they will see this differently. Because the child leaves US as an American and enters BRAZIL as a Brazilian.

Travelers that have dual citizenships won't have both passports stamped as they leave/enter either one of their countries. So, if the child has a Brazilian citizenship, that child will always leave the country as a Brazilian citizenship (travel document and a VISA to US will be required, of course greencard or US passport always replace the VISA requirement, but they must be shown at the airport)...

This means that Sean (since he is Brazilian as well) couldn't leave the country of Brazil on his own without proper documentation, even if Bruna was alive... even if she was still married to David... once he was registered as a Brazilian (and he should be, that's his birth-given right), he will always need proper papers to leave Brazil.

And yes, when my son was in Brazil he was not allowed to take an intercity bus without the proper document.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 27, 2009, 12:19:35 PM
I'm not saying anything against the judicial system in general, more the judge in the case had.

I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm just trying to say that can't help but doubt some of the decisions.

But, I think we can both agree that joao lins e silva is being immoral in how he is preceding with the case when he knows that eventually he will lose, but yet he keeps fighting....
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: joey2051;894
I'm not saying anything against the judicial system in general, more the judge in the case had.
 
I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm just trying to say that can't help but doubt some of the decisions.
 
But, I think we can both agree that joao lins e silva is being immoral in how he is preceding with the case when he knows that eventually he will lose, but yet he keeps fighting....

I completely agree with you, moraly it ´s despicable to me, especially when I heard that he travelled with Sean to another city while David flight to Brasil to visit Sean with the judicial authorization.
 
I strong believe that David will win this case, my best guess is that Sean will be with his biological father at home in christmas date. If not, some time during the first semester of 2010.
 
But I want to read this Hague Convention so I make sure that David will succeed.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Hanna on February 27, 2009, 12:32:07 PM
Quote from: tweinstein;836
I experienced the exact same thing. There are a few things you need to consider however. Bruna did not kidnap Sean by leaving the United States without David's permission. The majority of abductors go with their spouse's permission under the premise of a vacation. Also, under Brazilian law, by virtue of my children's mother, our children are considered Brazilian. I think they changed the law recently, but I was obligated to get a Brazilian passport for them so that they could travel to Brazil with their mother. Even if she traveled on her U.S. passport, Brazil would have reacted the same way because is indicates that she was born in Brazil.

Jaboo,
You are right. My kids have two passports as well. An American one and a Brazilian one. They have to use the Brazilian passport in Brazil because THERE they are Brazilians and they feel insulted if you show them the American passports. The reason why I said Bruna kidnapped Sean is because when she traveled to Brazil (legally) her intentions were NOT to come back and that's when the 'trip' turns into 'international abduction'.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 27, 2009, 12:36:40 PM
I'm sorry, but that's bull you know what.  The same judge denied him visitation before.  You know, this whole thing is illegal and wrong and we would be downing and do on a daily basis our own Government/Judicial system if the same thing were happening.  I know you are a Law student, my husband is a Lawyer and you guys have to do things a certain way, but this is plain kidnapping and child abduction.  The mother is dead and still the father had been denied his son.  Plain and simple.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 27, 2009, 12:45:21 PM
Yeah he's trying to say things and present things in the fashion you would in court.

I'm trying to say things and present thigns you would say to any person with a heart and soul, and obviously the court doesn't have these things.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 12:45:22 PM
Quote from: gail;902
I'm sorry, but that's bull you know what. The same judge denied him visitation before. You know, this whole thing is illegal and wrong and we would be downing and do on a daily basis our own Government/Judicial system if the same thing were happening. I know you are a Law student, my husband is a Lawyer and you guys have to do things a certain way, but this is plain kidnapping and child abduction. The mother is dead and still the father had been denied his son. Plain and simple.

Remember that the decision of this judge won´t be the final decision, wathever if it will be against or favourable to David. I believe the Lins family will appeal until it get to the Supreme Court.
 
Rember also that the absence in U.S. of an american law/bill demanding authorization from both parents to a child travel to outside the country will continue to generate similars cases, and that turns things more difficult to Sean´s dad.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 27, 2009, 12:53:15 PM
André Felipe,
 
I understand you are still in law school and that's fine, we all were some day. I don't want to patronize you either. Sorry to say it, but you just sound very naive and a true believer in what you read in the books, even before you even had the opportunity to confirm it or not by having practical experience in the courtroom.
 
Like I said, I'm a lawyer in Brazil and I'm very familiar with courts and can say that they don't all work like the STJ and STF proceedings shown in TV Justiça. I know and you know the expression "embargos auriculares", or "appeal in the ears", in a poor English translation. It does not involve money and we tend to consider this as "no corruption", but Americans have an understanding of corruption that goes beyond money and includes exerting one's influence in someone's favor.
 
I just want to ask you two things:
 
First: Do you have any idea of who was STF Justice Evandro Lins e Silva? In case you don't know, he was one of the top 5 mythical criminal attorneys and justicesin Brazil in the 20th. century. Are you familiar with Tecio Lins e Silva? He is a very well connected criminal attorney. Are you also familiar with Paulo Lins e Silva? He is one of the top family law attorneys practicing in Brazil today and very well regarded in court. Do you know who is Raul Celso Lins e Silva? A former Rio State Appellate Judge, now practicing in Paulo's family law office. These guys are respected in all courts of Rio and Brasilia, and they earned this respect, nothing wrong with that. This family has taught and mentored some of the current judges for decades, and we tend to have a lot of respect for good professors throughout our professional lives. It's natural that some influence happens and some clients retain them hoping that their influence as a great team of lawyers dating back to decades will help them in court. It does not even depend on the family's wish to use this influence in David's case. Once they walk into a room or file a petition the judge knows where is this coming from and how respected they are.
 
Second: How can you estimate that Sean will be home by Christmas, or by 2010, or whenever? These guys in this forum will believe it is accurate, while none of us have no idea of an estimate because we simply did not see the proceedings. If you trace down the records in Rio and Brasilia courts, you'll see dozens of "apelações" (appeals), "embargos declaratórios" (plea for detailing the ruling), conflito de competência ("jurisdiction conflicts") and other procedural rites. This can go on and on and I personally doubt that even a lower court favoring David will allow allow Sean to leave the country, because the judge knows that the U.S. court in New Jersey will not send the kid back if the Lins e Silva eventually wins a final decision. So please be careful in your estimates because a lot of people here will believe it and no one can safely estimate anything in this case.
 
All the best,
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 27, 2009, 12:53:44 PM
It's a little hard when your spouse leaves to go on vacation, and you are joining them in one week, not knowing the woman is leaving.  Imagine your husband and yourself planning a vacation, he goes first and you are meeting up a few days later and he calls ans says I'm never returning and you will never see your child again.  I do think there is something illegal about that and that's why the US courts ordered the child back, but Brazil did not comply.  Anyway, I don't want to argue about this any longer.  What these people are getting away with is wrong, that's all and the father wants his son.  Giving custody to a non blood parent instead of the biological father is wrong.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 01:05:31 PM
roger, I just want to make clear to these people understand how things here works (or should work) but I also said that corruption and other illegal ways to influence the judgs do exist here. I am very aware about how things works here.
 
I don´t know the lins family and i make it clear in my first post, and I clammed for someone to introduce me with their history.
 
When I talk about corruption, I mean bribery and any other illegal ways to convince a judge to make a decision. A judge who do not get bribe but decide favourable to the lins just because of his power is as illegal as bribe to me,  but, usually the corrupted judge do this with some legal breach, wich turns things more difficult to know if the decision was legitimous.
 
the Federal Instances is faster than the State Instance. I said my "best" guess, I am not giving shure, but I saw many judicial proceeding in Federal Instance ending in 1-2 years, and hope that will be the same case. But it´s only a hope. And, as this case takes high proportions here in Brazil, the judges will decide faster.
 
When it arrives in the Supreme Court, I belive it will decide within 6 months. This christmas is a optimisc guess, I believe it is possible to happen, I wish, but it will probably happen at some time in 2010.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 01:15:30 PM
but thanks for abording this question, I don´t want give people false hope. People should be prepare for anything. I just wanna see Sean with his father and I wish it could be realised in this christmas. There´s a possibility of a judge or court allow Sean travel to U.S, that maybe not probable but if they are convinced that David is right, that is possible.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 27, 2009, 01:17:37 PM
Lets hope you are right.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 27, 2009, 01:58:54 PM
Quote from: André Felipe;908
.Rember also that the absence in U.S. of an american law/bill demanding authorization from both parents to a child travel to outside the country will continue to generate similars cases, and that turns things more difficult to Sean´s dad.

The U.S. does require both parents to sign to let the other parent leave with the child.  Bruna blindsided David with all this, acted immoral and corrupt, and it is no wonder why this is such injustice.  Because of one immature person he has to miss four years with his son, and go through so much, how is this fair; the legal system isn't built for cases like this........
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 27, 2009, 02:03:16 PM
and because of the situation it should require extreme circumstances, not just be able to go through the courts, and yes the NJ supreme court gave cusody to David and Bruna and her parents were charged with parental kidnapping.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 02:06:47 PM
Quote from: joey2051;928
The U.S. does require both parents to sign to let the other parent leave with the child. Bruna blindsided David with all this, acted immoral and corrupt, and it is no wonder why this is such injustice. Because of one immature person he has to miss four years with his son, and go through so much, how is this fair; the legal system isn't built for cases like this........

I wrote that because of the posts that other people wrote, on pages 10,11 and 12 of this topic. They´re saying that to a kid leave the U.S. with one of the parents it is not required the authorization from the other parent.
 
Does any american attorney to conffirm that to me? or someone indicate a link with american legislation about this matter/subject
 
I am not mean to say that Bruna didn´t comitted a crime, I am just saying that the existence of necessary requirement of authorization from the other parent to leave the country with a child could have turned things much easier to Daniel in his judicial struggle in Brasil.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tweinstein on February 27, 2009, 02:11:43 PM
Quote from: joey2051;928
The U.S. does require both parents to sign to let the other parent leave with the child.  Bruna blindsided David with all this, acted immoral and corrupt, and it is no wonder why this is such injustice.  Because of one immature person he has to miss four years with his son, and go through so much, how is this fair; the legal system isn't built for cases like this........

This is not true. My wife took our children to Brazil at least 10 times throughout our marriage and NOT ONCE was asked for proof that I gave permission for them to leave the United States. However, twice my wife was stopped from leaving Brazil with our children when the Federal Police did not believe the documentation my wife presented was legitimate. It seems that Brazil is very consistent, though not completely with this requirement. Last month, my wife took our children on an airplane within Brazil without my permission and without passports (they were confiscated by the court system last year).
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: caique mateus on February 27, 2009, 02:13:11 PM
Quote from: Hanna;898
Jaboo,
You are right. My kids have two passports as well. An American one and a Brazilian one. They have to use the Brazilian passport in Brazil because THERE they are Brazilians and they feel insulted if you show them the American passports.

It's not a matter of felling insulted. I have double nacionality too, although the other one is not American. I'm not a lawyer (maybe our lawyer colleagues in the forum can clarify that) but, as from what I understood, if you are a Brazilian citizen, you cannot use your other nacionality to "scape" some legal obligation in Brazil. That goes the same with the other one. In Europe, I'm European. I cannot show my European passport in Brazil and leave the country trying to do something illegal like, for instance, scaping from an arresting order (I'm sure it's not the right technical term). Also, I cannot show my Brazilian passport here. I'm obliged BY LAW to identify myself as a local, whatever are the consequences. I get the benefit of my nacionality, the obligation comes in the same package. This was one of the first things the lady at the "court" (another wrong technical term) told me.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 27, 2009, 02:23:26 PM
Well I don't know, maybe it's just the first time, but I believe to get visas or passport the other parent has to sign.  David had to sign, giving persmission for Bruna to leave with Sean for two weeks.  The law was encated to prevent international kidnapping.....so much for that.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 02:30:19 PM
anyway, it seems that Bruna cheated David. I will only completely understand how the facts happens after that, and the subsequents judicials decision if I read the proceeding. Unfortunately that is impossible...
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: caique mateus on February 27, 2009, 02:57:10 PM
Quote from: roger;909
André Felipe,
 
I understand you are still in law school and that's fine, we all were some day. ...
...
All the best,

Well said. I'm not a lawyer and I've been living abroad for some years now, however the name "Lins e Silva" sounds familiar do me, mainly because of Evandro. Fair comment and very responsible.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 03:08:40 PM
I read a lot of law books and 3 ou 4 law periodics every single day and I must confess that I never heard about (or never gave much attention) the Lins e Silva, their fame may be limited only in Rio´s Justice and the superiors instances in Brasília.
 
The only thing that seems familiar to me was the Nery attorneys.
 
Anyway, the David´s attorney must get good use of the defence "suspeição" to avoid that judges with friendly ties with that familiy interfere in this judgement
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Bo1 on February 27, 2009, 03:12:56 PM
Quote from: André Felipe;855
Bo1, i think you never watched the Tv Justice Channel, because it´s quite obviously that not only the decisions are public, but also the way in which each supreme court judge votes in respect to convicting or acquitting a politician or anyone else,


André;

Please, ask Roger, or any other knowledgeable person, the STF when hearing a corruption case vs a POLITICIAN votes on a SECRET BALLOT. The votes of each particular judge are absoutely and unequivocably not made public. That is a widely known fact. As far as all their other cases I feel quite sure you're right....but not when trying to convict a politician.

Are you aware André that in certain states in Brazil it is against the state constitution to try the governor of the state for a crime? If I'm not mistaken one of your neighbor states is like that...Rondonia. They literally have a written document of immunity for the governor....and it's called their constitution.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Bo1 on February 27, 2009, 03:20:49 PM
Quote from: roger;909
André Felipe,
 
I understand you are still in law school and that's fine, we all were some day. I don't want to patronize you either. Sorry to say it, but you just sound very naive and a true believer in what you read in the books, even before you even had the opportunity to confirm it or not by having practical experience in the courtroom.
 
Like I said, I'm a lawyer in Brazil and I'm very familiar with courts and can say that they don't all work like the STJ and STF proceedings shown in TV Justiça. I know and you know the expression "embargos auriculares", or "appeal in the ears", in a poor English translation. It does not involve money and we tend to consider this as "no corruption", but Americans have an understanding of corruption that goes beyond money and includes exerting one's influence in someone's favor.
 
I just want to ask you two things:
 
First: Do you have any idea of who was STF Justice Evandro Lins e Silva? In case you don't know, he was one of the top 5 mythical criminal attorneys and justicesin Brazil in the 20th. century. Are you familiar with Tecio Lins e Silva? He is a very well connected criminal attorney. Are you also familiar with Paulo Lins e Silva? He is one of the top family law attorneys practicing in Brazil today and very well regarded in court. Do you know who is Raul Celso Lins e Silva? A former Rio State Appellate Judge, now practicing in Paulo's family law office. These guys are respected in all courts of Rio and Brasilia, and they earned this respect, nothing wrong with that. This family has taught and mentored some of the current judges for decades, and we tend to have a lot of respect for good professors throughout our professional lives. It's natural that some influence happens and some clients retain them hoping that their influence as a great team of lawyers dating back to decades will help them in court. It does not even depend on the family's wish to use this influence in David's case. Once they walk into a room or file a petition the judge knows where is this coming from and how respected they are.
 
Second: How can you estimate that Sean will be home by Christmas, or by 2010, or whenever? These guys in this forum will believe it is accurate, while none of us have no idea of an estimate because we simply did not see the proceedings. If you trace down the records in Rio and Brasilia courts, you'll see dozens of "apelações" (appeals), "embargos declaratórios" (plea for detailing the ruling), conflito de competência ("jurisdiction conflicts") and other procedural rites. This can go on and on and I personally doubt that even a lower court favoring David will allow allow Sean to leave the country, because the judge knows that the U.S. court in New Jersey will not send the kid back if the Lins e Silva eventually wins a final decision. So please be careful in your estimates because a lot of people here will believe it and no one can safely estimate anything in this case.
 
All the best,


You said a mouthful there Roger! Isn't it a shame, with all those wonderful credentials of the Lins e Silva family, that they have tarnished their "good name" with a situation like this. And you know, and I know, and all other brazilians know that this stems directly from people like the Lins e Silva having some sense of "entitlement" and knowing that they can use their influence to get just about anything they want.

I am 100% certain that when this situation started they simply said to themselves, "this guy is a nobody from New Jersey, we've got the kid in Brazil, he's screwed, whether it's ethical, moral, illegal, or not."

Whattya think they're thinking now that Hillary Clinton's first topic of discussion with Celso Amorin was Sean and David Goldman?!:)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 03:23:37 PM
peharps, bo1, it had been passed a long time since the last judgement with "secret ballot", at least, since 2005 when I entered in the law college, all the judgement envolving politicians was openly to the television. Secret Ballos is an exception, and I don´t believe that all these judgement were taken in secrecy.
 
The Governor of state must be judged for a crime by the STJ, if it´s true that the Constitution of Rondonia is written diferently, that is not constitucional before the Federal Constitution, and, cause of that, this precept has no value and cannot be aplicated.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Bo1 on February 27, 2009, 03:27:59 PM
Quote from: joey2051;878
Just a general point I want to make here.

After all the hell David has gone through; when he goes down their with a U.S. Congressmen who creates a bill in congress, he finally gets visitation,  Can you explain that legally?



Yeah Joey, I think I can. That's the "oh we stepped in shit and this guy now has the U.S. gov't. on his side" legal argument.:D
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Bo1 on February 27, 2009, 03:30:49 PM
Quote from: André Felipe;960
peharps, bo1, it had been passed a long time since the last judgement with "secret ballot", at least, since 2005 when I entered in the law college, all the judgement envolving politicians was openly to the television. Secret Ballos is an exception, and I don´t believe that all these judgement were taken in secrecy.
 
The Governor of state must be judged for a crime by the STJ, if it´s true that the Constitution of Rondonia is written diferently, that is not constitucional before the Federal Constitution, and, cause of that, this precept has no value and cannot be aplicated.



André;

Because it's on TV doesn't mean diddely. That doesn't mean that the publicly announce which minister voted to convict or acquit.

Ask Roger André, he certainly seems to be well-versed as well as experienced in Brazilian law.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 03:41:23 PM
if it didn´t appeared on the TV, the Internet and the Official Diary of Union published the decision, and I would know that there was, in fact, a "secret ballot".
 
acctualy i don´t believe that the judge was somehow afraid of the congressman because if he wants to make a non favourable decision, anyone in the planet couldn´t punish him of given such decision, so, nothing could stop him to make the decision. But, everything is possible to suppose for those who do not have access to the truth.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 27, 2009, 03:59:07 PM
Bo1 - That was good :)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 04:14:29 PM
Quote from: Bo1;959
I am 100% certain that when this situation started they simply said to themselves, "this guy is a nobody from New Jersey, we've got the kid in Brazil, he's screwed, whether it's ethical, moral, illegal, or not."
 
Whattya think they're thinking now that Hillary Clinton's first topic of discussion with Celso Amorin was Sean and David Goldman?!:)

 
hahaha, that I believe that they could have sayed.
 
I think they have never imagined that Clinton and the american government would want to follow the case. I think they are very concerned about the implications it might have here in Brazil.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 27, 2009, 04:23:17 PM
André is right on this one, guys. Secret ballots are not used in civil or criminal or family court proceedings in Brazil. In any court. Well, maybe in martial court, who knows?
 
All judges and justices must write their votes. An extract of the rulings or even the full ruling is published in the Official Gazette, but not the actual votes. These are available for anyone that goes to the court clerk.
 
Some exceptions that are now becoming the rule: because they sit on so much cash, the Supreme Court, the Superior Court of Justices and other privileged courts have actually put up very sophisticated and transparent websites that publish most of the votes of all Judges and Justices.
 
In any event, cases under secrecy of justice are also published: only the actual names are not used; instead, they are replaced by the first letters of the full name of all parties.
 
But, depending on the court, you cannot even follow online the goings on of the cases pending under "court secrecy". I have search David's case at the 16th. Federal Court in Rio and nothing comes up, as if it did not exist. I think that's a fair system. If it's secret, why mention that there is a proceeding? One must be an attorney or party in David's case to gain access to the physical files.
 
Secret ballots are used in Congress for peer-judgment of congressmen and senators for ethical violations (an euphemism for downright criminal charges that they commit and for which some other congressmen or senators want to be kicked them out).
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 27, 2009, 04:29:28 PM
Roger,  so even you being an attorney cannot find out if David's case is on any up-coming docket?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 04:33:27 PM
ow, bo1 made me be confused about this "secret ballot"...thanks roger.
 
gail, it depends on how the court manage to deal with the "secret judicial proceeding". In some courts we can see in wich phase is the proceeding. I don´t know how it is in Rio. If we have acess to the number of the proceeding, I think it is possible to know at least if the proceeding is ready for the judge to make a decision.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 27, 2009, 04:45:54 PM
André, as you have probably seen in school the legal profession are pretty much splitted between scholars and practictioners. It's hard to see truly outstanding atttorneys excelling in both capacities, although any of us can come up with a few names here and there.
 
The Lins e Silva family never pretended to be scholars and write books or articles in legal magazines: they are a fierce bunch of trial lawyers with very competitive lawyering skills.
 
All the elder Lins e Silva family, stemming from Justice Evandro, are very well regarded in whichever field of law they chose to pursue as trial lawyers. You should be more acquaited with Justice Evandro's work, he was a major figure in 20th. century legal practice with a heavy political involvement in pro bono work for human rights and against the dictatorship between 1964-1985.
 
The Nerys practicing in the Lins e Silva office whose names sound familiar are not related to the great civil procedure scholar Nelson Nery.
 
Again, only a routine of practical experience will supplement a law student's education and provide insight into the actual system. Who am I to lecture you, and of course watching TV Justiça's rulings can only help your legal education, but please don't take them as representing what goes on in Brazilian courts spread in all our 6,000 cities.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: roger on February 27, 2009, 04:56:14 PM
Gail and André,
 
Yes, I can't see the case files or have any information about the case. Not even being an attorney. If it's secret it's secret, unless the court personnel looking for celebrity-status start leaking it.
 
See, I happen to know the number of the process because it showed up in the Superior Court of Justice mediation decision that allowed visitation, which was made public in stj.gov.br. So I went online to the lower-court website to try to get more info on the actual case and could not find anything online. Even with the number of the proceedings handy. I think it's fair enough this way.
 
Just for you to know, the absolutely general rule is that proceedings are public and secrecy is the absolute exception, applicalble only when public policy calls for it.
 
In very few cases secrecy is mandatory, like in custody cases. In the vast majority of cases running under court secrecy the party affected must have successfully proven why it would be so hurt by unwanted publicity, and the judge has discretionary authority to make a decision.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 05:04:20 PM
because you say, i believe they are good, but I aways be very suspicious about a Lawyers who have famous names because I have read many writtings from famous attorneys and, as I read some writtings, I found it was a piece of sh**, and I figure that the guy only have his Name, the knowledge, only some of them have also, not all of them.
 
that´s why I only believe when people say that some attorneys are good if I read before some of theirs writtings. But, if you are saying the Lins are really good, I believe you, ehehe.
 
You are absolutly right about the practicing, there is much more to me to learn, but, I have a quite well experience that I will explain to you in private messenger, as I am in Brasil, inside the range of Lins´s attack or anyother who feels offended by what I am going to say to you. I don´t wanna be prosecuted, ehehehe.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 05:08:17 PM
Quote from: roger;980
See, I happen to know the number of the process because it showed up in the Superior Court of Justice mediation decision that allowed visitation, which was made public in stj.gov.br. So I went online to the lower-court website to try to get more info on the actual case and could not find anything online. Even with the number of the proceedings handy. I think it's fair enough this way.

oh i don´t like it. In my State is possible to know wich phase is the proceeding under secrecy, only the name of the persons and the matter contained in the proceeding is not available
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 27, 2009, 07:44:07 PM
I´ve just watched on the SBT TV Channel about David´s history,
 
it commented that "a child is in the Presidente Lula´s Agenda", "a father mobilizes american people to take back his son who is living in Brasil".
 
the reporter told all the history about Sean, and an interview with Celson Amorin was showed, when he had sayed that "the case is now on the Federal Justice, wich is good evolution".
 
the report also showed David appearing in American Tv channels asking the government for help and saying that he "is living a hell", and showed David sending a message to his son saying that he loves him, but David started to cry.
 
The report said that they´ve tried to contact the stepfather of the boy, but he didn´t answer the request.
 
The report didn´t said the names of the boy and the stepfather because the judicial proceeding is under secrecy.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 27, 2009, 07:49:08 PM
This is great.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Shar on February 27, 2009, 11:48:38 PM
I just received this Google Alert re: an infuriating O Globo article dated Feb. 28.  The Ribeiro aunt is spreading disinformation from what I can gather via a loose translation.  Some of the article isn't available to non-subscribers.

Google News Alert for: bruna lins e silva
Disputa por criança teria sido motivada por dinheiro (http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/27/disputa-por-crianca-teria-sido-motivada-por-dinheiro-754628872.asp)
O Globo - Rio de Janeiro,RJ,Brazil
Bruna conseguiu a guarda do filho e refez a sua vida. Casou-se com o advogado João Paulo Lins e Silva, engravidou novamente e veio a tragédia. ...

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/27/disputa-por-crianca-teria-sido-motivada-por-dinheiro-754628872.asp
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 27, 2009, 11:52:13 PM
The fact that it can say David's name, but not his son's name or lins e silva name really upsets me because its "classing" them together, when when this man should of never been in Sean life's with the things he's doing to David. Seriously, how can a man with no blood relation, file for custody, and get the child away from David and throw him through so many loops, how he can apply for custody, before David and be granted custody; I'm not really asking, just venting, It is so horrible and shouldn't be possible.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 27, 2009, 11:58:54 PM
Quote from: Shar;1047
I just received this Google Alert re: an infuriating O Globo article dated Feb. 28. The Ribeiro aunt is spreading disinformation from what I can gather via a loose translation. Some of the article isn't available to non-subscribers.
 
Google News Alert for: bruna lins e silva
Disputa por criança teria sido motivada por dinheiro (http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/27/disputa-por-crianca-teria-sido-motivada-por-dinheiro-754628872.asp)
O Globo - Rio de Janeiro,RJ,Brazil
Bruna conseguiu a guarda do filho e refez a sua vida. Casou-se com o advogado João Paulo Lins e Silva, engravidou novamente e veio a tragédia. ...
 
http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/27/disputa-por-crianca-teria-sido-motivada-por-dinheiro-754628872.asp

 
If they can't comment on the case, then who the hell is saying this??!!!!
If David has been able to survive the past four years with ammasing legal debts and never missing a mortage payment, how could he been suffering money problems?
 
It says "the family denies the fact" seriously, if they say they haven't commented, how can you say this.
 
They say he came to an aggreement after the case? What aggreement. Obviosly their using a trick on words and trying to fool people becuse yes David came on an aggreement to drop kidnapping charges on Bruna's parents, their trying to infer that is was custody on Sean. How horrible!!! **** these ******
 
 
And them HMMMMMM!!! they can't say names in the previous articles, but when articles come up from lins e silva point of view they include names.. HMMMMMMM!!!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Shar on February 28, 2009, 12:37:48 AM
Does anyone know a reporter at O Globo who might counter this %$@# propaganda for David?  (There's no writer named for the article.)  Can an official of BringSeanHome contact O Globo for a rebuttal?  I think they referenced the same Ribeiro aunt who wrote to Meredith Viera, nicknamed "Aunt Guta."  Here's her WindowsLive site...more garbage!  This is sickening.  http://vklein.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!CE14F8827CDC1A39!6519.entry#comment
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 28, 2009, 12:48:21 AM
Just to clear up, I think we decided that site was some friend or aquatince of the aunt, and that was just a letter the aunt had sent out too all those people, but yes the aunt is full of bull****
 
And wow, a reporter isn't even listed! Right when I got done screaming about how them not saying Sean or lins e silva's name (classing them together) here comes an article that says all the names...becasue it shows lins e sliva as a hero; so hey why not put his name in here!
 
It took them how long to get the guts(or ok) to publish David's Story?? of which they published pure facts and not names; Now they publish this heresay(I believe this is the aunt's letter, which is all heresay, not one fact, things she believes, which is not good reporting) and publish the names in it!!
 
After reading the letter on the live space again, I get just more fired up, if they willing to send this garbage letter to friends and family, and now what seems the media, I have no doubt their telling these lies to Sean, telling him his Dad is just after money-and saying their suffering "emotional" damage, they should! And the nerve she has to try to "protect" Sean's rights as a citizen! What about his rights as a U.S. citizen; She thinks she has more control, and protection over Sean then his own dad!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: rcgracia on February 28, 2009, 01:01:07 AM
Finaly!!!!!!:)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: rcgracia on February 28, 2009, 01:07:02 AM
Quote from: André Felipe;1009
I´ve just watched on the SBT TV Channel about David´s history,
 
it commented that "a child is in the Presidente Lula´s Agenda", "a father mobilizes american people to take back his son who is living in Brasil".
 
the reporter told all the history about Sean, and an interview with Celson Amorin was showed, when he had sayed that "the case is now on the Federal Justice, wich is good evolution".
 
the report also showed David appearing in American Tv channels asking the government for help and saying that he "is living a hell", and showed David sending a message to his son saying that he loves him, but David started to cry.
 
The report said that they´ve tried to contact the stepfather of the boy, but he didn´t answer the request.
 
The report didn´t said the names of the boy and the stepfather because the judicial proceeding is under secrecy.

 
Finaly!!!!!:)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Shar on February 28, 2009, 01:39:12 AM
Great news about SBT TV!!!  Where exactly would the show have aired? I'm thrilled that they actually showed David.  To see him on TV is very powerful.  More viewers now KNOW that he's an amazing and devoted father who deserves to love and raise his son NOW!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: FC_Florida on February 28, 2009, 01:41:11 AM
I'm speechless!
 
Look at the absurd published by the newspaper O Globo.
It seems that the so-called "Gag Order" is in vigor only for David.
I am mad as hell! Please, if anyone can translate that to English I would appreciate. It's way past 2 in the morning and I'm so upset that I cannot think straight right now.
 
http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/27/disputa-por-crianca-teria-sido-motivada-por-dinheiro-754628872.asp
 
Guarda
Disputa por criança teria sido motivada por dinheiro
 
Publicada em 28/02/2009 às 00h05m
O Globo
Comente (http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/27/disputa-por-crianca-teria-sido-motivada-por-dinheiro-754628872.asp#coment)
Comentários (http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/27/disputa-por-crianca-teria-sido-motivada-por-dinheiro-754628872.asp#coment)
 
RIO - Sentado diante da jornalista Meredith Vieira, uma das apresentadoras do programa "Dateline", da Rede NBC, o ex-modelo americano David Goldman contou, emocionado, a sua história. Ele se casou com a carioca Bruna Bianchi em dezembro de 1999 e passou a viver um conto de fadas com a "garota de Ipanema". Eles moravam em Nova Jersey e a rotina do casal girava em função do filho nascido cinco meses após a união. Tudo parecia perfeito até que Bruna decidiu viajar ao Brasil com a criança por duas semanas, em junho de 2004. Após desembarcar no Rio de Janeiro, ela ligou para o marido informando que não voltaria mais. Queria a separação. Bruna conseguiu a guarda do filho e refez a sua vida. Casou-se com o advogado João Paulo Lins e Silva, engravidou novamente e veio a tragédia. Ela morreu após o parto, aos 34 anos, em agosto de 2008.
Os pais de Bruna Bianchi e os Lins e Silva ainda não se pronunciaram oficialmente sobre a disputa, por causa do segredo de Justiça exigido em casos na vara de família. Documentos, entre eles um depoimento de Bruna escrito após a separação e enviado à Suprema Corte de Nova Jersey, onde existia um outro processo pela guarda do menino, mostrariam que o tal conto de fadas, de fato, nunca teria existido, como informa reportagem publicada pelo jornal O Globo neste sábado quinta-feira (acesso à íntegra somente para assinantes) (http://www.oglobodigital.com.br/) . Após o nascimento do filho, o casal teria se distanciado. Bruna reclamava da sobrecarga de trabalho para sustentar sozinha a família. Fluente em italiano, ela dava aulas numa escola local e se responsabilizava por todas as contas da casa.
Durante os últimos quatro anos, Goldman acusou a família de nunca ter permitido visitas ao garoto. A família nega o fato. Segundo relatou Maria Augusta Carneiro Ribeiro, tia de Bruna, em uma mensagem divulgada na internet, David chegou a fazer um acordo logo após o divórcio.
Na quarta-feira, a disputa pela custódia de um menino nascido nos Estados Unidos, mas trazido ao Rio de Janeiro pela mãe brasileira aos quatro anos de idade (http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/25/americano-luta-pela-custodia-do-filho-trazido-ao-brasil-pela-mae-diz-nyt-754583065.asp) , foi um dos temas do encontro da secretária de Estado americana Hillary Clinton com o ministro das Relações Exteriores, Celso Amorim.
Hillary cobrou de Amorim uma solução para o caso. Amorim nada prometeu. Ele disse apenas que houve "uma evolução positiva" no caso, porque ele passou à Justiça Federal. O ministro ainda explicou à Hillary que nessa jurisdição há uma tendência a dar maior importância às convenções internacionais, o que faria com que o episódio deixasse de ser encarado como um simples caso de direito de família.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Shar on February 28, 2009, 02:23:49 AM
From what I can gather, the obscene Feb. 28 O Globo article must have been written by Lins e Silva himself....or maybe by his Daddy, Paulo.  There's no byline!  This can't possibly be the position of the paper's own staff, can it?!?!  :mad:
 
PLEASE...will all the "Friends of David Goldman" who speak Portuguese submit comments to set the record straight?!
 
Does anyone have a good translation of the article...including the part that's not available to nonsubscribers?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: caique mateus on February 28, 2009, 03:01:23 AM
Saiu na VEJA. Com todos os nomes e fotos.
 
 
"Internacional
UM MENINO E DOIS PAÍSES
Mãe brasileira foge para o Rio com o filho que teve com
um americano, casa-se de novo, morre – e o garoto? Volta
para o pai nos EUA? Fica com o padrasto no Brasil? O caso
está virando um enrosco diplomático entre os países
(http://veja.abril.com.br/veja_online_2006/imagens/fio_assinatura.gif)
Ronaldo França e Silvia Rogar, do Rio de Janeiro
Fotos Giberto Tadday e Oscar Cabral
(http://veja.abril.com.br/040309/imagens/internacional1.jpg)ELES DOIS QUEREM SEANGoldman, que mantém o quarto de seu filho Sean intocado há mais de quatro anos, e a criança na companhia do seu padrasto em Búzios, no litoral do Rio: oito viagens ao Brasil e acusações até de doença degenerativa e incapacitante
As paredes são pintadas de um azul claro, assim como o teto de meia-água. A janela é ampla, o quarto é bem iluminado e tudo está no lugar: os brinquedos de pelúcia sobre a cama, os livros na pequena estante de TV, os sapatos alinhados ao rodapé, as roupas penduradas no cabide. Só o aquário não tem peixes, mortos durante um corte de energia elétrica. "Quero que fique tudo como estava quando ele foi embora", disse David Goldman, na quarta-feira passada, ao receber VEJA em sua casa, em Tinton Falls, no estado de Nova Jersey, referindo-se ao filho, Sean, que foi levado pela mãe há quatro anos e meio para o Brasil. Na mesma Quarta-Feira de Cinzas, Sean estava em Búzios, no litoral do Rio de Janeiro, onde passou o Carnaval numa luxuosa casa de frente para o mar, na companhia de familiares. Nestes últimos quatro anos e meio, pai e filho viram-se apenas uma vez, há menos de um mês, e somente por algumas horas, na área externa de um condomínio residencial no Rio e sob a vigilância de um psicólogo. "Nossos laços não se desfizeram", constatou Goldman, rememorando o encontro. "Ele ainda é o meu menino." Será?
A disputa pela guarda de Sean Bianchi Goldman é uma história talhada para um filme. Começou com um caso de amor no glamoroso mundo da moda em Milão e está virando um crescente desconforto diplomático entre Brasil e Estados Unidos. Em 1997, o americano David Goldman vivia em Milão como modelo, esbanjando sua estampa em 1,86 metro de altura e 80 quilos. Conheceu a brasileira Bruna Bianchi, bonita e culta, que estudava moda. Apaixonaram-se, mudaram-se para Nova Jersey. Ela engravidou, casaram-se em 1999 e Sean nasceu em 25 de maio de 2000. Na aparência, viviam uma vida feliz. Mas algo ia mal. Em 16 de junho de 2004, Goldman levou mulher, filho e sogros ao aeroporto para embarcar para curta temporada no Rio, como faziam de vez em quando. "Indo para o embarque, ela se virou para mim e fez nosso gesto de ‘eu te amo’. Posso vê-la fazendo isso." Bruna nunca mais voltou. Do Rio, ela ligou dizendo que o casamento acabara e que Goldman só reveria Sean se, entre outras condições, lhe desse a guarda definitiva do filho. Goldman relembra: "A voz dela estava estranha. Era metálica, sem emoção".
Jonathan Ernst/Reuters
(http://veja.abril.com.br/040309/imagens/internacional2.jpg)DEMORA É CRUELAmorim e Hillary, na semana passada: eles tocaram
no caso, mas com os punhos de renda
A guarda da criança caiu no emaranhado jurídico, mas um capítulo trágico mudou tudo. No Rio, Bruna casou-se de novo, com o advogado João Paulo Lins e Silva, do clã que há um século produz medalhões do direito. Em 22 de agosto passado, ao dar à luz Chiara, sua única filha com Lins e Silva, Bruna morreu em decorrência de complicações do parto. Com isso, em quatro anos, a vida de Sean atravessou um turbilhão dramático: foi levado do pai americano, perdeu a mãe brasileira, ganhou uma meia-irmã e, num lance surpreendente, teve sua guarda concedida ao padrasto. Temendo que Goldman pudesse pegar o filho de volta com a morte de Bruna, Lins e Silva, seis dias depois do falecimento da mulher, pediu à Justiça a guarda do menino alegando "paternidade socioafetiva". Com agilidade incomum, a Justiça atendeu a seu pedido no mesmo dia. Goldman aterrissou no Brasil dez dias depois. Chegou certo de que, como pai biológico, levaria o filho de volta. Descobriu que a guarda havia sido concedida para Lins e Silva.
Além dos contornos dramáticos, a história tem mistérios. Um deles: por que Bruna tomou uma decisão tão radical como a de sequestrar o próprio filho do pai? Bruna entrou no Brasil com autorização de Goldman para ficar com o garoto até 18 de julho de 2004. Depois dessa data, a permanência da criança no Brasil passou a violar a Convenção de Haia, que versa sobre sequestro internacional de crianças por um dos pais. Por que fez isso? "Ela nunca reclamou de nada da nossa vida", diz Goldman. Mas é óbvio que alguma coisa ia mal. A família de Bruna, que não fala publicamente do caso porque corre sob segredo judicial, tem insinuado que Goldman é um aproveitador. Enquanto eram casados, Bruna sustentava a casa dando aulas de italiano, e a vida sexual do casal era um deserto. Goldman nunca pediu para ver o filho e não atendia a seus telefonemas. Ávido por dinheiro, pegou 150 000 dólares em troca da retirada do nome dos ex-sogros do primeiro processo. Não tem renda nem emprego fixos. É portador de uma doença degenerativa, o que o impede de cuidar da criança.
Goldman diz que as acusações vão da mentira à manipulação. Diz que é mentira que não tivessem vida sexual, que não atendia às ligações do filho ou que não pediu para vê-lo. Afirma que esteve oito vezes no Brasil com esse objetivo. Confirma que fez acordo de 150 000 dólares, para poder enfrentar as despesas da batalha jurídica pelo filho, e não para vender sua guarda. "Com advogados em dois países, custas processuais e viagens internacionais, ele já gastou mais de 300 000 dólares", contabiliza seu advogado no Brasil, Ricardo Zamariola Junior. Goldman não tem emprego ou renda fixa, mas não vive no ócio. Faz bicos como modelo e corretor imobiliário e tira seu sustento com passeios turísticos de barco na costa de Nova Jersey. Cobra 600 dólares por seis horas. Sua agenda para o verão está tomada. Por fim, a doença de que é portador, a síndrome de Guillain-Barré, mata apenas de 3% a 5% dos pacientes. Goldman já passou por uma crise que o deixou semanas no hospital, mas ele se recuperou sem sequelas. A seu favor, há o fato de que tudo isso pode ser motivo para uma mulher pedir o divórcio do marido, mas nada disso justifica tirar do pai o direito de conviver com seu filho.
Ou justifica? Até aqui, a Justiça brasileira tem entendido que Sean já está adaptado ao seu novo meio. Com base nisso, o juiz Gerardo Carnevale Ney da Silva assinou sentença em que deu a guarda definitiva do menino à mãe em 2006. O juiz Carnevale é figura central no caso. Além da guarda para Bruna, ele lhe deu o divórcio em 2007 e, em agosto passado, concedeu a jato a guarda provisória do garoto ao padrasto. Consultado, falou: "O que posso dizer é que decisões nas varas estaduais levam em conta interesses da criança, não dos pais". Depois da morte da mãe, Sean passou a morar com os avós maternos, a meia-irmã e o padrasto num condomínio de luxo no Jardim Botânico, na Zona Sul da cidade. Divide as manhãs entre aulas de basquete e jiu-jítsu. Estuda à tarde na Escola Parque, colégio frequentado pela classe média alta carioca, e tem sessões de psicoterapia. A Convenção de Haia, espinha dorsal dos argumentos de Goldman, prevê que a criança sequestrada seja devolvida ao país de origem imediatamente. Mas também prevê que, depois de um ano, há que se levar em conta a adaptação da criança.
Gilberto Tadday
(http://veja.abril.com.br/040309/imagens/internacional3.jpg)A VIDA NUM TURBILHÃOBruna, Sean e Goldman, em visita à Disney, e uma foto recente em que Sean aparece com a meia-irmã, Chiara
"Depois de tanto tempo, deve-se considerar o que será melhor para o menino", diz William Duncan, secretário-geral adjunto da Conferência de Haia em direito internacional privado. Sean parece bem adaptado. Chama Lins e Silva de pai com naturalidade e leva uma vida de qualidade material muito superior à da imensa maioria das crianças brasileiras. Mas sua adaptação só teve tempo de sedimentar-se devido à tradicional demora da Justiça brasileira – e não porque seu pai não o quis de volta. Goldman acionou a Justiça americana. Ganhou, mas não levou. Será justo deixá-lo sem o filho? Quando o caso chegou ao Superior Tribunal de Justiça, dois ministros, Ari Pargendler e Carlos Alberto Direito, tocaram no ponto fulcral: a permanência do garoto no Brasil é o sequestro continuado de uma criança. "O que estamos fazendo ao admitir que a consolidação da situação, de fato, pelo tempo, impede o retorno?", perguntou-se Direito. "Estamos admitindo que qualquer pessoa possa burlar a Convenção de Haia, retirando o filho do país de origem, e aqui permanecer debaixo de um processo que pode ser moroso." Os dois foram voto vencido.
Na batalha pelo filho, Goldman acionou deputados e senadores americanos, e está conseguindo mobilizar o governo e a opinião pública americana em favor de sua causa. Em março, quando o presidente Lula estiver em Washington para visitar Barack Obama, haverá protesto em frente à Casa Branca. Na semana passada, em encontro com a secretária de Estado, Hillary Clinton, o chanceler Celso Amorim ouviu um pedido para agilizar o assunto. Amorim respondeu que o governo brasileiro fará o melhor, mas que o caso corre na Justiça. Em resumo: a diplomacia se mexeu, mas usa aqueles mesmos punhos de renda que levam anos para produzir resultado. Isso é aceitável quando se discute um acordo comercial ou um novo tratado, mas é uma crueldade quando se trata da vida de uma criança."
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 28, 2009, 07:41:16 AM
It is 6 in the morning, about to go to work and I see this.........what is this.......what happened to the gag order.....its like everything flippedo upside down over night......I'm guessing this T.V. station is huge in Brazil, it's like in one day they break the gag order and just completley spill the story out!!!
Title: Article in Veja Magazine
Post by: caique mateus on February 28, 2009, 07:49:36 AM
Yes, this is the most read weekly magazine in Brazil.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tweinstein on February 28, 2009, 07:58:51 AM
It is the equivalent of Time magazine.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 28, 2009, 09:09:18 AM
Quote from: joey2051;1050
If they can't comment on the case, then who the hell is saying this??!!!!
If David has been able to survive the past four years with ammasing legal debts and never missing a mortage payment, how could he been suffering money problems?
 
It says "the family denies the fact" seriously, if they say they haven't commented, how can you say this.
 
They say he came to an aggreement after the case? What aggreement. Obviosly their using a trick on words and trying to fool people becuse yes David came on an aggreement to drop kidnapping charges on Bruna's parents, their trying to infer that is was custody on Sean. How horrible!!! **** these ******
 
 
And them HMMMMMM!!! they can't say names in the previous articles, but when articles come up from lins e silva point of view they include names.. HMMMMMMM!!!

This article is ridiculous :mad:!!!
 
:mad: Achei a cara do Globo...materia tendenciosa !!
Nao gostei das insinuacoes e afirmativas, uma coisa eh vc relatar o fat com duas perspectivas diferentes outra eh vc levar o leitor a uma conclusao forcada..
 O Globo infelizmente cada vez mais perde a credibilidade!:eek:
 
I bam very disappointed with
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on February 28, 2009, 09:19:11 AM
Quote from: Claudia.Hope;1082
This article is ridiculous :mad:!!!
 
:mad: Achei a cara do Globo...materia tendenciosa !!
Nao gostei das insinuacoes e afirmativas, uma coisa eh vc relatar o fat com duas perspectivas diferentes outra eh vc levar o leitor a uma conclusao forcada..
O Globo infelizmente cada vez mais perde a credibilidade!:eek:
 
I bam very disappointed with

This article is a disgraceful !!!:mad::mad::mad:I am mad:mad:
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tstravis on February 28, 2009, 12:05:46 PM
To the Brazilians willing to help David - now more than ever is the time to spread the TRUTH!!!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 28, 2009, 12:13:51 PM
that photo is priceless, it says why David can never stop. Yes while the article seems unbiased, it is leaning a tad toward lins e silva, and I believe this is their family "commenting" on the situation, the reasons listed, which are no doubt by the family, we can finally see are prepostours, If they need to bring up some disease he has, they know they have nothing, they bring up their "sex" life-that is absolutley no excuse to abduct your own child!!!!! but all is ok as it is negated by the T.V. show(which is huge!!!!!) but still wat happened to gag order!! I think that once hearing of Clinton speaking about it, they said hell with it.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 28, 2009, 12:58:51 PM
Globo and SBT are competitive TV channels, the Lins family have tight relationship with the headmasters of Globo, and unfortunetly Globo is the most powerful and watched Tv channel in Brasil.
 
But the rest of the press is publishing this history, and only that report from Globo newspaper seens tendencious for the Lins to me.
 
The VEJA magazine is good, and, together with the SBT report, will counterbalance the negative Globo report.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 28, 2009, 04:14:30 PM
Can anybody tell me what the people are saying in the comment part of the Globo article?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 28, 2009, 04:36:24 PM
I looked at a few earlier and they say things like you should do whatever's best for Sean, whatever he wants
 
It seemed liked most people didn't know the whole story
 
I remember one comment said their should be split cusotdy between lins e silva and David, but then blasted Bruna for doing this in the first place.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: FC_Florida on February 28, 2009, 04:40:00 PM
Quote from: gail;1183
Can anybody tell me what the people are saying in the comment part of the Globo article?

Hi Gail,
I went back to to the site to check out the comments and the majority seem unfavorable towards the Lins e Silva and Bruna's family. The truth always comes out, no matter how many layers you put it on trying to cover! Those despicable individuals can try to use their PR people to spread those lies, they can manipulate Globo to their favor but it doesn't matter. They realized they are loosing the battle and maybe that's way they are resorting to those tactics now. That's how I see it.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Lexi on February 28, 2009, 05:31:07 PM
Gail;
One commenter calling himself/herself "voice of Brazil" seemed to favor the LeS but several others jumped on him. One hilariously said he sounds more like "voice of LeS"!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 28, 2009, 06:40:08 PM
That's great news.  When people start talking badly about things that have nothing to do with the actual case, to me it just means they are getting desparate.  I hope if David wins this that they give him custody immediately.  I don't know why he would have to wait until the stepfather can appeal.  If someone is found guilty, they put them in jail and wait for the appeal.  Something needs to be done quickly.  I don't know how, but you would think that someone high up would tell this family that it's over and to stop.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tweinstein on February 28, 2009, 06:53:06 PM
Quote from: gail;1205
That's great news.  When people start talking badly about things that have nothing to do with the actual case, to me it just means they are getting desparate.  I hope if David wins this that they give him custody immediately.  I don't know why he would have to wait until the stepfather can appeal.  If someone is found guilty, they put them in jail and wait for the appeal.  Something needs to be done quickly.  I don't know how, but you would think that someone high up would tell this family that it's over and to stop.

I don't want to sound negative, but there's a common saying, "Possession is 9/10 of the law." As long as JPLS has Sean, he has the upper hand. This battle will continue to be uphill, but I'm convinced that everybody is in it until victory. Keep up the good work!:)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 28, 2009, 07:00:00 PM
I hope your wrong.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Aida on February 28, 2009, 07:18:22 PM
Gail who is the guy with Sean?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 28, 2009, 07:26:33 PM
In the picture?  I was assuming it was David and was going to ask who took the picture.
 
Does anyone else know if that is a picture of Sean with David when he finally saw him?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Aida on February 28, 2009, 07:36:00 PM
Gail this does not look to me like a swimimg pool. I thought that David & Sean saw each other at the house of the kidnappers.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 28, 2009, 07:51:21 PM
Rio is oceanside and apprently they have a house by the ocean, for who took the picture, who knows, and I didn't know that he could even take one, and yea of course it's David.

And when you think about it, he only saw his son twice in 4.5 years, which makes me angry all over again!  

It must of been the first day as well since their is no dumb-XXX court ordered psychiratrist right next to him.

This picture saddens me, it sums up all the emotions he's going through
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: rachelle4 on February 28, 2009, 08:19:59 PM
Quote from: gail;1217
In the picture?  I was assuming it was David and was going to ask who took the picture.
 
Does anyone else know if that is a picture of Sean with David when he finally saw him?

That is JPLeS with Sean next to the ocean.:mad:
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 28, 2009, 08:38:45 PM
Quote from: rachelle4;1222
That is JPLeS with Sean next to the ocean.:mad:

wow, I really thought that was David, but guess I didn't look close enough, they have similar builds; that enrages me, I'm sure David does not like looking at that photo.  There he is, all alone, while another man is with his son... their is no justice.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 28, 2009, 08:44:29 PM
Quote from: gail;1205
That's great news. When people start talking badly about things that have nothing to do with the actual case, to me it just means they are getting desparate. I hope if David wins this that they give him custody immediately. I don't know why he would have to wait until the stepfather can appeal. If someone is found guilty, they put them in jail and wait for the appeal. Something needs to be done quickly. I don't know how, but you would think that someone high up would tell this family that it's over and to stop.

gail, there is a chance, a very small chance, that David could win in a certain instance and the Lins must appeal without Sean´s custody, and Sean stays with David while Lins appeal. It´s very unlikely to happen, but it´s possible. I hope David has that luck.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 28, 2009, 09:17:56 PM
Quote from: gail;1205
That's great news. When people start talking badly about things that have nothing to do with the actual case, to me it just means they are getting desparate. I hope if David wins this that they give him custody immediately. I don't know why he would have to wait until the stepfather can appeal. If someone is found guilty, they put them in jail and wait for the appeal. Something needs to be done quickly. I don't know how, but you would think that someone high up would tell this family that it's over and to stop.

gail, I believe that if David wins in the first instance, the stepfather will have to appeal without Sean´s cutody, but I will wait roger arrives so I ask him if it is true.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 28, 2009, 09:18:10 PM
It looked like a sad picture to me.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 28, 2009, 09:19:37 PM
You mean David will have physical custody and then the family can appeal?  That's how it should be.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 28, 2009, 09:21:17 PM
Quote from: gail;1231
You mean David will have physical custody and then the family can appeal? That's how it should be.

I believe so, but I am not sure, I will ask roger about that.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on February 28, 2009, 09:26:32 PM
Roger had said it depends on how soon the appeal and whether or not they "hide" Sean.  If they can't find Sean to give to David before they appeal, he stays with them.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 28, 2009, 09:33:58 PM
Quote from: joey2051;1233
Roger had said it depends on how soon the appeal and whether or not they "hide" Sean. If they can't find Sean to give to David before they appeal, he stays with them.

that look strange to me... i couldn´t get the roger´s point....
 
I am thinking about the "suspensivo" effect, i believe that this kind of judicial proceeding doesn´t have this effect, so, if David wins in the first instance, the stepfather must give Sean to David, and if Lins appeals, the judge can deny that effect to the appeal, and Sean stays with his father. But the judge can also give the effect to the appeal, and in this part public opnion can influence on the judge´s decision.
 
I will talk about it with roger.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 28, 2009, 09:37:53 PM
If they hide the boy, can't they get in a lot of trouble for that?  I mean we're dealing with a very high profile case now.  The whole world is watching, I don't think they would be that stupid, but you never know.  They didn't hide him for the visitation this last time, but they did the time before.  I really hope Chris Smith goes back with him.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 28, 2009, 09:39:21 PM
And the big question is when will they rule on this?  I know tweinstein is probably cringing while reading this, because he has been waiting over 2 years for a ruling.  This is nuts, it really is.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tweinstein on February 28, 2009, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: gail;1238
If they hide the boy, can't they get in a lot of trouble for that?  I mean we're dealing with a very high profile case now.  The whole world is watching, I don't think they would be that stupid, but you never know.  They didn't hide him for the visitation this last time, but they did the time before.  I really hope Chris Smith goes back with him.
Refer to Francois Larivee's case. He has already won two rulings in Brazil, yet his child is still there. If you read the article about his case, it provides a clear accounting of what happened when he went to claim his child.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: sue on February 28, 2009, 09:49:17 PM
It makes me more and more angry reading this.  How is it that these women can have things move so quickly in the Brazillian courts?  It doesn't seem to work that way for you fathers.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Greenville_SC on February 28, 2009, 09:50:15 PM
There was a very disturbing news in O Globo newspaper today saying David is after the money of the family if he gets Sean back.
 
http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/27/disputa-por-crianca-teria-sido-motivada-por-dinheiro-754628872.asp (http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/27/disputa-por-crianca-teria-sido-motivada-por-dinheiro-754628872.asp)
 
Several people were upset with that news, including me. The majority of the postings were done in that newspaper in favor of David.
 
We need to organize a protest in front of the Lins e Silva office building in Ipanema, with flyers explaining the situation. Some people want to do and guy from Sao Paulo said he would fly to Rio just to be part of that protest. Please organize this in the site and ask people interested in participate to email you guys back. Also, rachel could start to organize that in Rio. We could coincide with the summit we will have in Washington when the Brazilian presidente visits Obama. Same day, same protests, different cities.
 
Greenville_SC
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tweinstein on February 28, 2009, 09:53:05 PM
Quote from: gail;1240
And the big question is when will they rule on this?  I know tweinstein is probably cringing while reading this, because he has been waiting over 2 years for a ruling.  This is nuts, it really is.
While my children have been in Brazil illegally for 2 1/2 years, technically, I have only been waiting about one year for a ruling. It took Brazil 10 months to file the case and another 7 months to have the hearing. I know it sounds like I'm minimizing the wait, but I want to make sure that everything about my case is presented accurately.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: tweinstein on February 28, 2009, 09:55:37 PM
Quote from: gail;1243
It makes me more and more angry reading this.  How is it that these women can have things move so quickly in the Brazillian courts?  It doesn't seem to work that way for you fathers.
I'm guessing that the attorneys already have the appeals prepared. It is simply a matter of presenting it to the courts for filing.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: André Felipe on February 28, 2009, 10:28:38 PM
Quote from: tweinstein;1246
I'm guessing that the attorneys already have the appeals prepared. It is simply a matter of presenting it to the courts for filing.

I will be surprised if they don´t do that. But there is also a possibility that the judges order Lins to release Sean to his father, despite they appeal. It´s unlikely, but possible.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: KarmaGirl on March 01, 2009, 12:51:02 AM
It was disheartening to read the lies published in that newspaper.  It is laughable that a non blood relative like Lins E Silva is abusing his power and using his wealth to hide Sean from his own father, and then he accuses David of wanting money.  

Hopefully, David has presented his side in such detail, including videos that show the love and bond between he and Sean, that these slanderous accusations will smack of desperate kidnappers, and not of family who cares about Sean.

Of course we all know the main force behind all this is probably the corrupt Grandparents.  The ones that looked David in the eye and didn't say a word that they were taking Bruna and Sean to Brazil for good.  

People either have a heart and a conscience or they don't.  The Lins E Silva family and Bruna's parents don't have a heart and certainly have no conscience.  That cannot make David feel good knowing his son is being brainwashed and influenced by these people.

Waiting for justice in Brazil will be several more years, in my humble opinion, so I hope our government can effectively step in and demand repatriation.  

I am as frustrated as all of us here with the pace of this case and the heartbreak for David, and Sean.  I feel my own heart literally breaking (it hurts!) when I think of this ever happening to me, and certainly when I think of it happening to David.

As a mom of three kids, this is too much for any parent to bear.

I'll do my part, and everyone else keep doing theirs.   Together, I hope we can make a difference.  I'm so proud of the people from all countries who are signing the petition.
Title: When they are on the other side...
Post by: caique mateus on March 01, 2009, 03:49:06 AM
Hi, folks,
 
I'm sorry I cannot translate this link:
 
http://www.stf.jus.br/arquivo/cms/testeTexto/anexo/decisao1.pdf
 
I'd be nice to have someone with good and technical english to do so. At least some parts. This is a "sentença" (like a decision) from judge Wilney Magno de Azevedo Silva. In this case, the father hired L&S office to represent him, when the mother kidnapped their son and took him to Brazil. The judge is clear and you can read in page 9 something like: "...does that authorize the mother to take the child to another hemisphere instead of using the proper legal ways? NO. ABSOLULETY NO!"
 
And you can read JPLS's name in the first page. This is available to everybody in internet. I guess they cannot sue anybody to talk about this case?!?!?!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on March 01, 2009, 07:14:20 AM
O Estadao(chamada na primeira pagina)
 
 
 


 
 
 
diplomacia (http://www.estadao.com.br/estadaodehoje/20090301/not_imp331497,0.php)
(http://www.estadao.com.br/imagens/l138/david.jpg) (http://www.estadao.com.br/estadaodehoje/20090301/not_imp331497,0.php) Disputa por garoto vira saia-justa (http://www.estadao.com.br/estadaodehoje/20090301/not_imp331497,0.php)
 
Guarda ganha a mídia nos EUA e está na pauta de Lula  (http://www.estadao.com.br/estadaodehoje/20090301/not_imp331497,0.php)
 

 
 

 
Domingo, 01 de Março de 2009
 

Disputa por garoto de 8 anos vira saia-justa diplomática para o Brasil
 
Guarda de criança trazida pela mãe ao País ganha a mídia nos EUA e está na pauta de encontro de Lula com Obama
 
Patrícia Campos Mello, WASHINGTON; Fabiana Cimieri e Marcelo Auler, RIO
Tamanho do texto? A A A A
 
 
A batalha do americano David Goldman para recuperar seu filho - que vive com o padrasto brasileiro, no Rio - ganhou grande repercussão nos Estados Unidos e se transformou em saia-justa diplomática para o Brasil. O caso já foi tema de reportagem no programa Dateline, da NBC, de reportagem no The New York Times e vai ao ar em breve na CNN, que esteve com Goldman na quinta-feira.
 
Ao se reunir com o ministro das Relações Exteriores, Celso Amorim, na quarta-feira, a secretária de Estado dos EUA, Hillary Clinton, fez questão de falar do caso. E, demonstrando o peso que a Casa Branca está dando ao assunto, deve entrar na pauta do encontro dos presidentes Lula e Barack Obama, no dia 17 , em Washington. Um protesto de pessoas solidárias a Goldman está marcado para a data e promete fazer barulho e tentar ofuscar o evento.
 
Com a repercussão internacional da disputa, a família da mãe do pequeno S.G. avalia que está perdendo a disputa junto à opinião pública e resolveu romper o silêncio. O tio do garoto por parte de mãe, Luca Bianchi, de 30 anos, falou com exclusividade ao Estado. Ele acusa o ex-cunhado de montar um circo. "Ele mostra um vídeo com o filho na piscina e acha que isso basta para dizer que podem ter uma vida feliz." Bianchi, que morou nos EUA próximo da irmã e do cunhado, diz desconhecer as três mulheres que aparecem como amigas de Bruna em reportagem na NBC. "Até amigas compradas eles arrumaram", afirma.
 
Até seis meses atrás, S. G. vivia como um garoto da zona sul do Rio, com a mãe, a empresária Bruna Bianchi, e o padrasto, o advogado João Paulo Lins e Silva, de 34 anos, na Lagoa. Os três estavam juntos havia quatro anos e esperavam a chegada da irmã caçula, Chiara. Goldman permanecia em New Jersey e, inconformado com a vinda do filho para o Brasil, brigava na Justiça dos dois países, sem sucesso, pela guarda. No dia 21 de agosto de 2008, Bruna morreu ao dar à luz. Sua morte reacendeu a disputa pela guarda de S. G..
 
O pai biológico, além das ações judiciais que move desde 2004 para levar o menino de volta aos EUA, conta com uma rede de amigos que criou uma campanha na internet batizada de Bring S.G. Home. Com respaldo dos americanos, após a perda da guarda do filho, Goldman acusa a Justiça do Rio de beneficiar o padrasto, ao lhe permitir ficar com o menino, mesmo sem ter laço de sangue. Lins e Silva é filho e sócio do advogado Paulo Lins e Silva no maior escritório de Direito de Família do Rio.
 
Desde a morte da mãe, S.G. mora em um condomínio na Barra da Tijuca, na zona oeste, com a irmã, Chiara, o padrasto e os avós maternos. "A perda da Bruna foi violenta. Unidos temos mais força para ajudar o S. a suprir a perda", diz Bianchi. "O pai veio seis dias depois que a Bruna morreu, pedindo para levar o garoto. Não tinha nem missa de sétimo dia", reclama. E estranha o interesse "repentino" pela criança. "Esse cara visa ao dinheiro. Queria sempre se dar bem em toda situação. Tem uma família desestruturada."
 
Segundo Bianchi, sua família decidiu não contar para S.G. que ele pode ter de ir morar nos Estados Unidos, caso a Justiça assim decida. Em fevereiro, depois de quatro anos, S.G. reencontrou o pai biológico durante dois dias, por decisão judicial. "Ele sabe que o pai quer uma aproximação, mas não falamos que o David vende caneca com a cara dele e que ele pode perder as pessoas que ama, depois de já ter perdido a mãe."
 
Bianchi também acusa o ex-cunhado de estelionato. Diz que Goldman falsificou a assinatura de Bruna em cheques e descontou US$ 4 mil da conta dela, depois de sua volta ao Brasil. Com base no que viu ao morar nos EUA, classifica a relação do casal como uma "farsa". Eles dormiam há três anos em quartos separados. Enquanto S.G. ficava com o pai em casa, a mãe trabalhava dando aulas de italiano. "Meu sobrinho começou a apresentar um comportamento esquisito, dizendo que a mãe não o amava por ficar menos tempo em casa", disse Bianchi. Segundo ele, as poucas cenas de que o menino se lembra da vida americana são de brigas violentas.
 
DEFESA
 
As acusações da família de Bruna foram rebatidas pelo advogado Ricardo Zamariola, que tenta na Justiça brasileira a repatriação. Com documentos do processo e uma carta da advogada americana Patrícia Apy, Zamariola demonstra que Goldman já gastou US$ 230 mil na Justiça americana, cerca de US$ 100 mil nos processos do Brasil e US$ 40 mil nas vindas ao País. "Iria gastar tanto assim para compensar como?"
 
Foi para conseguir pagar essas despesas que Goldman, segundo seu advogado, fechou um acordo na Justiça americana retirando do processo os ex-sogros, Silvana Bianchi e Raimundo Ribeiro, em troca de US$ 150 mil. Rebate também a acusação de que o americano sacou dinheiro da conta da ex-mulher, lembrando que foi ele quem pediu o bloqueio das contas. Zamariola contesta as acusações de que Goldman não procurava o filho. Acusa a família de Bruna de impedir os encontros dos dois.
 
Goldman falou algumas vezes por telefone com o filho. Mas, ao ingressar com ação nos EUA, passou a ter barradas as ligações. "O pai de Bruna, no juízo americano, admitiu que rejeitava as ligações e explicou que seus advogados disseram que ele não era obrigado a atender quem o processava."
 
Goldman, segundo seu advogado, guarda peças que provam a dedicação ao filho. São mais de 200 cartões eletrônicos enviados por e-mail. Há fotos dos presentes que mandava e o correio devolvia, com o carimbo de "recusado". Lembra que em nenhum processo movido por Bruna (separação e guarda) "há qualquer acusação dela contra o ex-marido ou mesmo dele contra ela". A defesa do americano tem gravações das conversas telefônicas com o filho e a ex-mulher, quando os dois já estavam no Brasil. Em uma, Bruna agradece "por você ser o pai do meu filho e você ser o melhor pai que meu filho poderia ter".
 
 
CRONOLOGIA
 
2000
Nasce nos Estados Unidos S.G., filho da brasileira Bruna Bianchi e do americano David Goldman
 
16 de junho de 2004
Com autorização de Goldman, Bruna e o menino viajam ao Rio de férias. Mas a mulher liga
dizendo que não voltará e ele só poderá ver o filho se aceitar o divórcio, na Justiça brasileira
 
Julho de 2004
Bruna entra com ação na 2.ª Vara de Família do Rio, pedindo a guarda do filho. O pedido é concedido. Goldman não se manifesta para não descaracterizar o "sequestro"
 
Setembro de 2004
Goldman entra com ação em New Jersey contra Bruna e seus pais pelo "sequestro" da criança. Ela é intimada a apresentar o filho, mas não cumpre. Goldman recebe US$ 150 mil e, em troca, retira a ação contra os ex-sogros
 
Novembro de 2004
Goldman pede o cumprimento da Convenção de Haia, que manda que a criança seja levada ao país onde vivia para a guarda ser discutida. Mas está prevista uma exceção - quando a criança estiver integrada ao meio -, e o pedido é rejeitado em três instâncias
 
Julho de 2006
A Justiça dá a guarda à mãe. Goldman recorre, mas o TJ diz que a criança está adaptada e feliz
 
Julho de 2006
Bruna ingressa com ação de divórcio litigioso. Goldman nada faz
 
Julho de 2007
O caso divide o STJ, mas a permanência de S. é de novo aprovada
 
21 de agosto de 2008
Já casada com o advogado João Paulo, Bruna dá à luz uma menina, mas morre no parto
 
28 de agosto de 2008
João Paulo obtém na 2.ª Vara de Família a guarda do enteado. Goldman entra com recurso, negado
 
Setembro de 2008
A 2.ª Vara da Família nega pedido de Goldman para visitar o filho. O Ministério Público afirma a necessidade de resguardar a criança
 
Outubro de 2008
É concedido a Goldman o direito de visitar o filho. Sua vinda é anunciada ao advogado do padrasto. Uma forte chuva levou o juiz a mandar que a visita só começasse no dia seguinte. Mas o menino não foi encontrado. Estava em Búzios com o padrasto, que disse desconhecer a vinda do americano
 
30 de janeiro
Após campanha, Goldman vai à TV. O caso estoura nos EUA
 
6 de fevereiro
Na audiência de conciliação e julgamento foi concedido a Goldman direito de ver o filho sempre que vier ao Brasil. As primeiras visitas ocorreram nos dias 9 e 10
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Greenville_SC on March 02, 2009, 08:22:13 AM
Another news, David's comments, was published on O Globo today! yesterday, they showed Bruna's family point of view. Today, they are showing David's.
 
http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/03/01/americano-diz-que-familia-brasileira-mentiu-sobre-seu-interesse-pelo-filho-754648635.asp
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: dana on March 02, 2009, 12:15:33 PM
Quote from: Greenville_SC;1455
Another news, David's comments, was published on O Globo today! yesterday, they showed Bruna's family point of view. Today, they are showing David's.
 
http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/03/01/americano-diz-que-familia-brasileira-mentiu-sobre-seu-interesse-pelo-filho-754648635.asp

 
Translate please!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: KathleenK on March 02, 2009, 09:17:57 PM
here is another article....maybe some port speakers can leave comments
 
http://www.virgula.com.br/atitude/v2/nota/Disputa-por-garoto-de-8-anos-vira-imbr%C3%B3glio-diplom%C3%A1tico,,12618/ (http://www.virgula.com.br/atitude/v2/nota/Disputa-por-garoto-de-8-anos-vira-imbr%C3%B3glio-diplom%C3%A1tico,,12618/)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Claudia.Hope on March 03, 2009, 11:43:18 AM
Quote from: KathleenK;1597
here is another article....maybe some port speakers can leave comments
 
http://www.virgula.com.br/atitude/v2/nota/Disputa-por-garoto-de-8-anos-vira-imbr%C3%B3glio-diplom%C3%A1tico,,12618/

 
Hello, This is a copy from O Estado de Sao Paulo's article. You can see the translation on MAIN CATEGORY,,,,
 Good news is O Estado de Sao Paulo newspaper is trustworthy and because that we have the same article everywhere...
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Grace on March 03, 2009, 03:45:01 PM
Wow, her half brother (ah, the extended family in Brazil is so united) is criticizing the fact that showing David with his son in the swimming pool does not mean he can be a good father. Hello!! Master manipulation of cheap emotions, how else would David have spent his little time with his son, fighting?
 
Second, they are accusing the 3 friends who appear on the Dateline video as "bought friends". The brother is saying that he had never heard of these 3 women. I suggest these 3 women come forward and detail their relationship with Bruna.
 
Funny, Bruna did seem kind of unhappy in some of those home videos...homesick, disillusioned. She thought she could have the privileged life she had in Rio, and then she found herself working inside and outside the home, dark winter days, etc. As a Brazilian who also comes from an upper middle class family, I know exactly how she was feeling. None of that however, justifies the big mistake she made, the most awful betrayal of her husband. If she was so much hating NJ, why did she not suggest to David that they all move back to Brazil? He surely could have modeled there (fashion capital of the world now) or something else. She just did not love her husband anymore, got bored in her marriage and had very bad advice from her conniving parents. Maybe she met JPLS while hiring him to defend her custody case? She was not even very pretty, just cute. David was a lot better looking than her. The fact she quickly married the lawyer is also weird, what's behind that?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Grace on March 03, 2009, 04:08:49 PM
I just did.
 
I also hope David clarifies the accusations of being after the boy's money, of falsifying Bruna's signature to get money from her bank account, about hiring 3 women to pose as friends, and why he took the 150k.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Grace on March 03, 2009, 04:10:46 PM
As an atheist, I have to laugh at the brother's claim that David showed up 6 days after Bruna's death to take his son.
 
Too much religion in Brazil. What the heck does the "seventh day mass" have to do with him wanting to be with his son who just lost his mother!! The family is saying absurd things. Like a mass is going to resolve anything.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Aida on March 03, 2009, 08:09:26 PM
These people think David bought these Ladies? That is crap. David is a Gentleman!!! We leave the buying of people to the Ribeiro and Lins e Silvas. Give me a break!!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on March 03, 2009, 08:29:59 PM
Just the fact that those are the only defenses they have have is horrible. What kind of defense is that, none of those points defend taking the child in the first place. I hope people realize that. What kind of defense is that? Why the f*** would it matter if he faked her check, she kidnapped their child. Wow, this is all after she kidnapped him, why in hell would any of those points matter, what do they have to do with her breaking the law and kidnapping the child.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Aida on March 03, 2009, 08:36:45 PM
joey2051......i would say they have nothing. Remember these people are kidnappers!!! And they think they are above the law and they are in Brazil but not in the USA. Kidnapping is still kidnapping!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: joey2051 on March 03, 2009, 08:46:09 PM
Quote from: Aida;1855
joey2051......i would say they have nothing. Remember these people are kidnappers!!! And they think they are above the law and they are in Brazil but not in the USA. Kidnapping is still kidnapping!

I know my point exactly, they just don't have anything so they have fabricate these things,  t's just sad that a newspaper would publish that crap though and that they have the power to tell people these lies.  I mean come on how low can these people be, you have to make up lies to keep another man's son, just let him have him back already.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Isabel on March 03, 2009, 10:39:15 PM
The accusations made by the "other camp" are utterly ridiculous and frankly, only a moron could possibly believe them. Are we suppose to believe that David, as a model, did not make enough money to have a decent life? That he didn't save anything? So what if he didn't have a full-time job? Many people work flexible hours and still support their families very, very well. A real estate agent makes a pretty good commission when he/she sells a house. As long as a person working various jobs is financially intelligent and does not splurge, are we to believe they can't afford to feed themselves?
Also, they keep trying to make David look like a looser that can't support himself, let alone a child. Oh, really? Then how the heck has the man managed to pay the mortgage on his house all these years since Bruna left? By selling t-shirts and mugs of Sean? And what about his legal bills?
I mean, anyone that uses there head for anything other than just growing their hair can see right through these sorry excuses for committing a crime.
However, what I find interesting is that all these comments - were they true - could justify Bruna leaving David. NOT ONE justifies her running off with their son. NOT ONE.
Lucas Bianchi or whatever other representative of Camp kidnap that reads this site, if you think that the fact that David apparentely did not make as much money as your brat sister wanted him to make justifies her running away with their child, depriving Sean of having a healthy and happy life with his Dad, then you are pathetic and I truly pitty you.
May God help the children you come to have some day.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: DevinsMommy on March 03, 2009, 11:06:11 PM
Considering David's story is just now becoming "well-known" to the world (and even the United States)....I find it hard to believe that he made enough money to support himself and pay his staggering legal fees by selling Sean Goldman propaganda such as mugs, etc.  Hard to sell that much stuff to people who aren't even aware of his situation anyway.... JMO on that particular story of theirs......
 
In the other stuff they said, it is obvious they are trying to make him look like a loser that can't take care of his son. It is the same, tired argument anyone uses to make someone else look bad. They could at least be a little more creative, especially after the recorded phone calls of Bruna telling David he was the best father EVER!
What lame excuses and shoddy accusations!  Shame on them!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Grace on March 04, 2009, 02:24:05 PM
This story reminds meof the Sally Field movie "Not without my daughter", from the late 80,s, where the father kidnaps his daughter and takes her back to the middle east.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Andy US on March 06, 2009, 01:50:39 PM
Hi, I am a Brazilian living in the US.  I registered to let you know that, after spending hours reading information about this case, I feel really sorry for Sean's father.  I hope that, like it seems, all the attention that this case is being given by both US and BR media, it will be resolved soon with Sean coming back home, to his father's care, where he should be since when, at least, her mother died.  I will not express my disgust for all that I have read because it has already been very well expressed for many readers, specially Grace, that I have agreed with all that I read from her posts.  Had Bruna not being deceived in her labor, I would say that you wouldn't stand a chance of bringing your son back (not because you would not deserve it, but because in Brazil it is almost impossible for a father to get a son's custody if the mother wants it too, let alone if the father is American and living in the US...) but since she is gone (what a macabre irony!), I can't think of any reason why the boy should not be with you now.  Brazil is a good country, and Brazilians, in general, are a good people.  You cannot judge a country based on the acts of an evil, ill family, or families.  Our Judicial System is, however, flawed, many times corrupt, and I can tell that based on my own family's experience with it, that I will not go into details because our problems are not what this matter is about.  So good luck to you, David, and let's hope you can be reunited with your son soon.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: claudia on May 07, 2009, 08:13:55 AM
Ferreira Gullar, writer/poet, wrote on his page at Folha de São Paulo last sunday, may 3, 2009 :
 
"The brazilian Bruna Bianchi Ribeiro was married to american David Goldman.
They lived in the US and had a child. The boy was 4 years old when Bruna told her husband she was going to Brazil on vacation. When she got here she phoned her husband telling the marriage was over and their son will stay with her. This, no doubt, chararterizes kidnapping.  ... ''
 
:hug:
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Tessnyc on June 03, 2009, 08:23:25 PM
Quote from: claudia;20769
Ferreira Gullar, writer/poet, wrote on his page at Folha de São Paulo last sunday, may 3, 2009 :
 
"The brazilian Bruna Bianchi Ribeiro was married to american David Goldman.
They lived in the US and had a child. The boy was 4 years old when Bruna told her husband she was going to Brazil on vacation. When she got here she phoned her husband telling the marriage was over and their son will stay with her. This, no doubt, chararterizes kidnapping. ... ''
 
:hug:
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Tessnyc on June 03, 2009, 09:06:45 PM
I’m Brazilian and live in New York. Thru all sources I have accessed both in USA and Brazil, by all meanings, I don’t need any Law or Court to tell me what is fair or RIGHT in this case: DAVID GOLDMAN IS THE FATHER OF THIS CHILD. He has more rights over Sean than his step-father.
 
Brazilian law is an outdated book from the forties, often “interpreted” and played by the rules of wealthy and influential people for their convenience. Brazilians are used to often break rules and laws as well. It’s a shame!
 
That said, my opinion is that they all, Justice and step-father’s family, are just messing up with Sean’s feelings. He is now 8 years old boy, with school mates, friends and of course at ease with his Brazilian family. He has been taught and influenced by them for four years, could it be different?
So, any Sean’s awkward feeling towards his biological father is pretty much comprehensible. But time helps to heal everything. I am a mother and grandmother and know what I’m talking about. Fatherhood is a very deep and natural connection and Sean will find it, sooner or later.
 
Just give David and Sean a chance to know each other better! Return to the biological father the right to stand by him and conquer his son’s trust. Give Sean the chance to know the other side of his tragic situation.
 
I would dare to suggest that the two families should reach out good terms and willingness for this kid’s own happiness. Sean’s father, in getting the full custody of his son, should not retaliate for his long ordeal in respect of his son’s feelings for his mother’s relatives. Just live all in peace for Sean’s sake!
 
David should be allowed to be in contact and share Sean’s life intensively in Brazil to make amends and help him understand and speak his native language. After an adjusting period he would be much better prepared to move back to his home! This time will also allow his mother’s family to cope and accept the new reality. I understand that it will be a heartbreaking for the grandparents, step-father and all Brazilian relatives to return him but THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: RaquelOliva on June 04, 2009, 08:25:03 AM
Dear Tessnyc
 
I'm Brazilian and I live in NY, too. I agree that is not fair what is going on, and I really wish that David reunites with his son and go forward with their lives in peace, but you saying that "brazilians are used to often break the rules and laws as well", I think is small and prejudice to your own country. Like any country in this world, there are people that have ethic and moral, and there some that don't. I visit the forums in portuguese and in english and I know that the MAJORITY of Brazilian people think that is imoral what is happening and want the end of this as well.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: heatheram29 on June 04, 2009, 05:40:25 PM
Quote from: Tessnyc;26862
I’m Brazilian and live in New York. Thru all sources I have accessed both in USA and Brazil, by all meanings, I don’t need any Law or Court to tell me what is fair or RIGHT in this case: DAVID GOLDMAN IS THE FATHER OF THIS CHILD. He has more rights over Sean than his step-father.
 
Brazilian law is an outdated book from the forties, often “interpreted” and played by the rules of wealthy and influential people for their convenience. Brazilians are used to often break rules and laws as well. It’s a shame!
 
That said, my opinion is that they all, Justice and step-father’s family, are just messing up with Sean’s feelings. He is now 8 years old boy, with school mates, friends and of course at ease with his Brazilian family. He has been taught and influenced by them for four years, could it be different?
So, any Sean’s awkward feeling towards his biological father is pretty much comprehensible. But time helps to heal everything. I am a mother and grandmother and know what I’m talking about. Fatherhood is a very deep and natural connection and Sean will find it, sooner or later.
 
Just give David and Sean a chance to know each other better! Return to the biological father the right to stand by him and conquer his son’s trust. Give Sean the chance to know the other side of his tragic situation.
 
I would dare to suggest that the two families should reach out good terms and willingness for this kid’s own happiness. Sean’s father, in getting the full custody of his son, should not retaliate for his long ordeal in respect of his son’s feelings for his mother’s relatives. Just live all in peace for Sean’s sake!
 
David should be allowed to be in contact and share Sean’s life intensively in Brazil to make amends and help him understand and speak his native language. After an adjusting period he would be much better prepared to move back to his home! This time will also allow his mother’s family to cope and accept the new reality. I understand that it will be a heartbreaking for the grandparents, step-father and all Brazilian relatives to return him but THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

Welcome! I'm sure most of us agree with your position, with one exception.
 
While it may be ideal for Sean to adjust more slowly and delay the move back to the US, the plain truth is that his Brazilian family has proven time and time and time again that they are not to be trusted. If it were not for that fact maybe things would be different. It's not about retaliation. The situation in Brazil is so precarious that David would never be able to let his guard down. There would always be the legitimate fear that Sean would be abducted (for the third time!), or the judicial system would reverse it's ruling yet again.
 
If you held your hand out to a person and offer peace and that person stabbed you in that hand.. how many times would you continue to try?
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Fernanda.m on June 10, 2009, 05:47:27 PM
I desagree with you. I think his father didn't show the love for his son before he needed money. He didn't call, only twice a year, and when he came to Brazil, he didn't ask to see his son.
Sean is brazilian too! He has to stay here and that's what he wants!
The Hague Convention allows the two arguments to be considered. I hope Sean stays here with his family in Brazil because his father in the U.S. seems to haven't good character.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Genenut on June 10, 2009, 06:06:50 PM
Quote from: Fernanda.m;31559
I desagree with you. I think his father didn't show the love for his son before he needed money. He didn't call, only twice a year, and when he came to Brazil, he didn't ask to see his son.
Sean is brazilian too! He has to stay here and that's what he wants!
The Hague Convention allows the two arguments to be considered. I hope Sean stays here with his family in Brazil because his father in the U.S. seems to haven't good character.

Obviously you havent read the court documents from Judge pinto. Bruna's family PREVENTED David from seeing Sean until February when the court ruled they had to allow him visitation... In addition David NEVER didnt show love. He was prevented from showing love and NEVER took money from Bruna's family. Get the facts straight before you start spouting your opinions.

and I REALLY wouldnt get into an arguement about character .... the brazilian family REALLY does live in a glass house and cant afford to throw any stones...
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: bev on July 27, 2009, 02:34:09 PM
Hello, as a Brazilian raised, I am pasting a post that appeared on a different thread that really specifies what the greatest problem is with this case and everything else related to the problems in Brazil.....it is very painful to have admit this, but this is the absolute truth:                                                     I had some Brazilian visitors at my house and they know my activism within BSH. I asked them their position on David's case and they are in favor of Sean being returned to his father ("obviously", they pointed out).
 
However, their attitude is of "defeatism" and "apologism". They gave me a very grim picture of Lula's government and the ever existing corruption in the country. They said Lula is almost dictator-like and the poor population loves him due to popular actions like a "basic basket" of free monthly food items to those who have an income lower than a certain amount, the "school-scholarship" which is a certain amount of money given to parents who guarantee their kids go to school, etc.
 
They also told me Minister Toffoli is very close to Lula and does what he wants (??). And that Lula bailed out the Globo media group, which was struggling, and now they never badmouth him.
 
Meanwhile, corruption runs wild in a big scale, and most Brazilians feel helpless.
 
Even though I lived in Brazil most of my life, it still shocks me to hear that the population accepts the corruption passively. They complain and complain, decade after decade, but they simply do not get together and act against it. They claim is has gotten better than in the past, but still has a long way to go.
 
I tried to argue that Brazil is an avid internet user and that widespread information is the best weapon to bring corruption to light and provoke enough ire that public opinion forces change. I gave as an example Twitter, extremely popular in Brazil, which has corruption stories availabe for all to see.
 
My visitors said it doesn't matter. The majority of the population just doesn't care. All they want to watch or read about is SOCCER, Formula 1 and SOAP OPERAS. If you try to discuss something more serious with many people, even the "educated" ones, they immediately lose interest. Girls are raised to try to be "models" and boys aspire to become soccer players.
 
They accept corruption with passiveness. They shrug their shoulders and say "fazer o quê, né?" ("do what, right?"). There is little sense of organization, community and activism. They say that it will take "100 years" to change the mentality, instead of trying to change things NOW. I blame only one thing for the state of affairs and corruption in Brazil: the Brazilian population.
 
Finally, they did not try to find out more and showed no interest when my husband and I talked further about David's case. I think they think this is small potatoes in the grand scheme of corruption. I believe that is the attitude of many educated middle class Brazilians now.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: Sashia on July 27, 2009, 07:11:17 PM
Quote from: bev;43639
Hello, as a Brazilian raised, I am pasting a post that appeared on a different thread that really specifies what the greatest problem is with this case and everything else related to the problems in Brazil.....it is very painful to have admit this, but this is the absolute truth:                                                                   I had some Brazilian visitors at my house and they know my activism within BSH. I asked them their position on David's case and they are in favor of Sean being returned to his father ("obviously", they pointed out).
 
However, their attitude is of "defeatism" and "apologism". They gave me a very grim picture of Lula's government and the ever existing corruption in the country. They said Lula is almost dictator-like and the poor population loves him due to popular actions like a "basic basket" of free monthly food items to those who have an income lower than a certain amount, the "school-scholarship" which is a certain amount of money given to parents who guarantee their kids go to school, etc.
 
They also told me Minister Toffoli is very close to Lula and does what he wants (??). And that Lula bailed out the Globo media group, which was struggling, and now they never badmouth him.
 
Meanwhile, corruption runs wild in a big scale, and most Brazilians feel helpless.
 
Even though I lived in Brazil most of my life, it still shocks me to hear that the population accepts the corruption passively. They complain and complain, decade after decade, but they simply do not get together and act against it. They claim is has gotten better than in the past, but still has a long way to go.
 
I tried to argue that Brazil is an avid internet user and that widespread information is the best weapon to bring corruption to light and provoke enough ire that public opinion forces change. I gave as an example Twitter, extremely popular in Brazil, which has corruption stories availabe for all to see.
 
My visitors said it doesn't matter. The majority of the population just doesn't care. All they want to watch or read about is SOCCER, Formula 1 and SOAP OPERAS. If you try to discuss something more serious with many people, even the "educated" ones, they immediately lose interest. Girls are raised to try to be "models" and boys aspire to become soccer players.
 
They accept corruption with passiveness. They shrug their shoulders and say "fazer o quê, né?" ("do what, right?"). There is little sense of organization, community and activism. They say that it will take "100 years" to change the mentality, instead of trying to change things NOW. I blame only one thing for the state of affairs and corruption in Brazil: the Brazilian population.
 
Finally, they did not try to find out more and showed no interest when my husband and I talked further about David's case. I think they think this is small potatoes in the grand scheme of corruption. I believe that is the attitude of many educated middle class Brazilians now.

Too bad they won't wake up until it is one of their family caught in some unjust and futile position or  some kind of international affair. Then, they will be crying and asking everyone to stand up and help them.
History shows that only a small percentage of a population will actually fight for their rights, while the rest hang back waiting for the sacrifices of others to benefit them. But they will never truly be free, because they have that 'save me' mentality.
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
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Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: wicasa on March 01, 2022, 01:37:04 PM
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Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: wicasa on May 29, 2022, 12:08:09 PM
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Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: wicasa on July 05, 2022, 11:00:39 PM
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Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: wicasa on September 05, 2022, 12:22:49 PM
Andr (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/8022)480 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/566)Bett (http://eyesvision.ru)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com)Saga (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1212319)surv (http://filmzones.ru/t/1039988)Buen (http://gadwall.ru/t/1205216)Plus (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1102749)Intr (http://gageboard.ru/t/1100386)Uria (http://gagrule.ru/t/1037499)Wind (http://gallduct.ru)Pete (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1230369)Dast (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1410402)Zdob (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1699278)Dial (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1552764)Chri (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1069272)Galo (http://gascautery.ru/t/1760131)Rich (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1043681)Youn (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1801835)Thom (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/976732)Pujm (http://gaugemodel.ru)Medi (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/122961)Alph (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1118493)
Hamm (http://geartreating.ru/t/1097402)Arch (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1081903)Tell (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1096900)Brig (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1049802)Blat (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1038378)Patr (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1144894)Heli (http://getthebounce.ru/t/555793)MARV (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1088653)Jame (http://habituate.ru/t/1092554)Vale (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1179049)Phan (http://hackworker.ru/t/1679059)Cont (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1103188)Meri (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1374566)Plat (http://hailsquall.ru/t/943558)XVII (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1059440)Mari (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/664358)XVII (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/854707)XVII (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/845898)Vitt (http://haltstate.ru/t/893491)Ther (http://handcoding.ru/t/1027668)Kath (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1143351)Foun (http://handradar.ru/t/632488)Alic (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/834836)
Mati (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1028322)Wolf (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/769120)Omsa (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/567267)Mind (http://hardasiron.ru/t/633383)Sigm (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/946945)Andr (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1002525)Cher (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/625577)Cath (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/781317)Arte (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1547820)Mees (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1547023)ELEG (http://headregulator.ru/t/1547910)Modo (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1547835)Gera (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/941448)Emil (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1312424)Live (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1182732)Nobe (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/606040)Yosh (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/636624)Henr (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1154042)Kuni (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/638146)Foun (http://jobstress.ru/t/632495)Mari (http://jogformation.ru/t/1032644)Push (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1147766)Push (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1147901)
Push (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1067407)Roma (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1147544)Sela (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1180682)Circ (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1182082)Circ (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1183613)GUES (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1180404)Circ (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1181484)John (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/620889)Mick (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1183399)amil (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1188005)Zone (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/608664)Rond (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/610904)Sela (http://keyserum.ru/t/1180990)Ludw (http://kickplate.ru/t/1408205)Open (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1515127)Fyod (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1047846)Nota (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/892597)XVII (http://kinozones.ru/film/9234)Wind (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1200669)Beat (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1125385)Circ (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1711424)Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/609044)McBa (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1230302)
Zone (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1549119)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1194174)Zone (http://laborracket.ru/t/1549921)Zone (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1549160)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1548920)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1190630)Zone (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1189754)Chet (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1188892)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1186706)Zone (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1194204)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1192216)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1190482)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1192044)Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1192121)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1193772)Zone (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1827588)Zone (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1185384)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1185288)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1186730)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1189666)Zone (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1711717)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1187145)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185594)
Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1191105)Snow (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161640)Betw (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/590283)Eplu (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1078)Kron (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/1030641)Step (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1031158)Bosc (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452462)Mabe (http://layabout.ru/shop/452256)Cata (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/599749)Pete (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/106501)Wind (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/465964)Mist (http://leaveword.ru/shop/788075)Bumb (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/305485)Befl (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/609634)Gian (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/446212)Smel (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/269153)Line (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/577399)Memo (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/575983)BELL (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/160250)CARE (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613674)Jewe (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/597773)ESID (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/3130)Blue (http://mp3lists.ru/item/566)
Hane (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1042059)Tops (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/574795)Winx (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/462524)Magi (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/446741)SCRA (http://naturalfunctor.ru)Disn (http://navelseed.ru/shop/104142)Live (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/455829)call (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/175089)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/185944)Vero (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/572250)Bric (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/447711)supe (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/95651)Bosc (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98481)Bvlg (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/469834)Darl (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571730)Wind (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/147437)Comp (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/1254623)This (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)Tutt (http://onesticket.ru/shop/583757)Truc (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/584721)Trau (http://pagingterminal.ru)Open (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/202805)Hall (http://palmberry.ru/shop/204380)
Negr (http://papercoating.ru/shop/585355)Angr (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/688021)Acad (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1166671)Revo (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1166799)Acad (http://partfamily.ru)Anto (http://partialmajorant.ru)Albr (http://quadrupleworm.ru)Hand (http://qualitybooster.ru)Migu (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/598371)Home (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/887585)ESOM (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1080460)Ever (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1416151)Olga (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/359356)Whis (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/510745)kolo (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/635398)Kone (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/517483)Robe (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1077282)Ursi (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1222678)Scot (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/394184)Reco (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/513695)Well (http://rearchain.ru/shop/858255)Mich (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/636477)Dave (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1653758)
Rich (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1659058)Glen (http://redemptionvalue.ru)fict (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1678485)Busi (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1694718)West (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/121885)Enjo (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1775976)High (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1821471)Mich (http://sagprofile.ru)Alfr (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1382050)Tove (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1082825)Raym (http://satellitehydrology.ru)Indi (http://scarcecommodity.ru)BAND (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1208148)Mich (http://screwingunit.ru)Wasn (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1977393)Stev (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1461312)Irmg (http://secularclergy.ru)Fion (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/1566952)Wind (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/45847)Paul (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/398183)Chri (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/67544)Eplu (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1078)Eplu (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1078)
Eplu (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1078)Jewe (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/486107)Aliv (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/494790)Davi (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/1773681)Cris (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1775609)Chal (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/489817)Rock (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/504732)Fort (http://technicalgrade.ru)Hube (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/582968)Gold (http://telescopicdamper.ru)Hyst (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/247807)Dism (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/398986)Widd (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Thin (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/441127)Quee (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/486259)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: wicasa on October 01, 2022, 12:27:08 PM
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geartreating.ru (http://geartreating.ru)generalizedanalysis.ru (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)generalprovisions.ru (http://generalprovisions.ru)geophysicalprobe.ru (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)geriatricnurse.ru (http://geriatricnurse.ru)getintoaflap.ru (http://getintoaflap.ru)getthebounce.ru (http://getthebounce.ru)habeascorpus.ru (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate.ru (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt.ru (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker.ru (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation.ru (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin.ru (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall.ru (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere.ru (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe.ru (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings.ru (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence.ru (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate.ru (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding.ru (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead.ru (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar.ru (http://handradar.ru)handsfreetelephone.ru (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)
hangonpart.ru (http://hangonpart.ru)haphazardwinding.ru (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hardalloyteeth.ru (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)hardasiron.ru (http://hardasiron.ru)hardenedconcrete.ru (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)harmonicinteraction.ru (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)hartlaubgoose.ru (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)hatchholddown.ru (http://hatchholddown.ru)haveafinetime.ru (http://haveafinetime.ru)hazardousatmosphere.ru (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)headregulator.ru (http://headregulator.ru)heartofgold.ru (http://heartofgold.ru)heatageingresistance.ru (http://heatageingresistance.ru)heatinggas.ru (http://heatinggas.ru)heavydutymetalcutting.ru (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall.ru (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar.ru (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane.ru (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment.ru (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress.ru (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation.ru (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule.ru (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial.ru (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)
journallubricator.ru (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher.ru (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels.ru (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide.ru (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin.ru (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease.ru (http://kaposidisease.ru)keepagoodoffing.ru (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand.ru (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory.ru (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight.ru (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation.ru (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance.ru (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum.ru (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate.ru (http://kickplate.ru)???? (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond.ru (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish.ru (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones.ru (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle.ru (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint.ru (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse.ru (http://knifesethouse.ru)knockonatom.ru (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate.ru (http://knowledgestate.ru)
kondoferromagnet.ru (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph.ru (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket.ru (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings.ru (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing.ru (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree.ru (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse.ru (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint.ru (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor.ru (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient.ru (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron.ru (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload.ru (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller.ru (http://laissezaller.ru)lambdatransition.ru (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial.ru (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot.ru (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse.ru (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal.ru (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie.ru (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor.ru (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor.ru (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform.ru (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio.ru (http://landuseratio.ru)
languagelaboratory.ru (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart.ru (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration.ru (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens.ru (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse.ru (http://laserpulse.ru)laterevent.ru (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant.ru (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout.ru (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating.ru (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm.ru (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve.ru (http://learningcurve.ru)???? (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible.ru (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator.ru (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield.ru (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse.ru (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern.ru (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling.ru (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff.ru (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand.ru (http://manipulatinghand.ru)manualchoke.ru (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks.ru (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists.ru (http://mp3lists.ru)
nameresolution.ru (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries.ru (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed.ru (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus.ru (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor.ru (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed.ru (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster.ru (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries.ru (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration.ru (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights.ru (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule.ru (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon.ru (http://observationballoon.ru)obstructivepatent.ru (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining.ru (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon.ru (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem.ru (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder.ru (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid.ru (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket.ru (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres.ru (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal.ru (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones.ru (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry.ru (http://palmberry.ru)
papercoating.ru (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup.ru (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane.ru (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake.ru (http://parkingbrake.ru)partfamily.ru (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant.ru (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm.ru (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster.ru (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney.ru (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark.ru (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet.ru (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge.ru (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser.ru (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator.ru (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge.ru (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration.ru (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth.ru (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster.ru (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion.ru (http://reachthroughregion.ru)readingmagnifier.ru (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain.ru (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone.ru (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment.ru (http://recordedassignment.ru)
rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)
stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)
Title: Re: Reactions in Portuguese to articles on David and Sean's plight
Post by: wicasa on December 01, 2022, 01:14:47 PM
audiobookkeeper (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)cottagenet (http://cottagenet.ru)eyesvision (http://eyesvision.ru)eyesvisions (http://eyesvisions.com)factoringfee (http://factoringfee.ru)filmzones (http://filmzones.ru)gadwall (http://gadwall.ru)gaffertape (http://gaffertape.ru)gageboard (http://gageboard.ru)gagrule (http://gagrule.ru)gallduct (http://gallduct.ru)galvanometric (http://galvanometric.ru)gangforeman (http://gangforeman.ru)gangwayplatform (http://gangwayplatform.ru)garbagechute (http://garbagechute.ru)gardeningleave (http://gardeningleave.ru)gascautery (http://gascautery.ru)gashbucket (http://gashbucket.ru)gasreturn (http://gasreturn.ru)gatedsweep (http://gatedsweep.ru)gaugemodel (http://gaugemodel.ru)gaussianfilter (http://gaussianfilter.ru)gearpitchdiameter (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)
geartreating (http://geartreating.ru)generalizedanalysis (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)generalprovisions (http://generalprovisions.ru)geophysicalprobe (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)geriatricnurse (http://geriatricnurse.ru)getintoaflap (http://getintoaflap.ru)getthebounce (http://getthebounce.ru)habeascorpus (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar (http://handradar.ru)handsfreetelephone (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)
hangonpart (http://hangonpart.ru)haphazardwinding (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hardalloyteeth (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)hardasiron (http://hardasiron.ru)hardenedconcrete (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)harmonicinteraction (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)hartlaubgoose (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)hatchholddown (http://hatchholddown.ru)haveafinetime (http://haveafinetime.ru)hazardousatmosphere (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)headregulator (http://headregulator.ru)heartofgold (http://heartofgold.ru)heatageingresistance (http://heatageingresistance.ru)heatinggas (http://heatinggas.ru)heavydutymetalcutting (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)
journallubricator (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease (http://kaposidisease.ru)keepagoodoffing (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse (http://knifesethouse.ru)knockonatom (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate (http://knowledgestate.ru)
kondoferromagnet (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller (http://laissezaller.ru)lambdatransition (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio (http://landuseratio.ru)
languagelaboratory (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse (http://laserpulse.ru)laterevent (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand (http://manipulatinghand.ru)manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists (http://mp3lists.ru)
nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon (http://observationballoon.ru)obstructivepatent (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry (http://palmberry.ru)
papercoating (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake (http://parkingbrake.ru)partfamily (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion (http://reachthroughregion.ru)readingmagnifier (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment (http://recordedassignment.ru)
rectifiersubstation (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology (http://satellitehydrology.ru)scarcecommodity (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency (http://seismicefficiency.ru)???? (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale (http://spysale.ru)
stungun (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter (http://tailstockcenter.ru)tamecurve (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)