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Bring Sean Home Foundation => International Abduction Cases => Warren => Topic started by: snowdove on September 06, 2012, 05:50:18 AM

Title: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: snowdove on September 06, 2012, 05:50:18 AM
I married a irish man and moved to Ireland, had two children and when the marriage ended, i was told that the children most remain in Ireland,,, when will this maddness end!
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: BringJusticeHome on September 06, 2012, 11:29:08 AM
You did not say much, so I can only go by what you said. You married an irishmen and willfully moved to Ireland. I do not know where the children were born, but that does not matter if you willingly relocated to another country. This is not child abduction. Just because your an American citizen and things did not work out with your ex husband does not mean that the children now get sent to your country. You willingly as far as I know relocated to Ireland establishing Ireland as the habitual residence and jurisdiction for your children.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: snowdove on September 06, 2012, 12:07:43 PM
yes i can live in ireland, but this law for Americans is  crap, four years, i fought to have my children and the only thing im told is that the irish passport out weights theirs american one,.. I dont want to live in Ireland due to work.. I posted here as to bring attention to the  fact the US does nothing to help us.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: Christine on September 06, 2012, 12:41:05 PM
Why would the US do something to help you?  From the little information you gave us, it would appear that your children have lived in Ireland their entire lives.  And you, it would also appear, want to take your children away from their father and everything they have ever known and move them thousands of miles away.  You made the decision to move to Ireland and have your children there.  There is nothing the US can, or should, do for you.
 
What really gets me, is you post this in a forum dedicated to parents who have had their children ripped from them.  Children that they haven't seen in years.  Are you expecting sympathy?  I doubt you'll find it here.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: snowdove on September 06, 2012, 12:54:33 PM
I thought this was the site for the American mother who lost her child to the irish law, like I did,,, I was mentally abused for years, and had no money to return to the states, when I finially had the chance to get out, i was told I could not take the kids and have to remain there till they are 18.. i dont want your pity I wanted to know what  we can do, as there are many of us out there, who have no clue that even kids born in the states can be removed to Ireland.. so sorry and you can remove my posts
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: forthelost on September 06, 2012, 04:20:31 PM
You married an Irish man. You moved to Ireland. Your children were born and raised there. The court says they have to stay in Ireland.

I'm not seeing the wrong here.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: rduffiel on September 06, 2012, 05:36:03 PM
I agree the court made the right decision.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: NoansDad on September 06, 2012, 06:25:52 PM
I think you could rename your post to be "Brasilian mother and kids can't leave USA"  or 'Mexican mother and kids can't leave USA" or "Japanese mother and kids can't leave USA" or maybe just simply "Mother and kids can't leave whatever country they moved to to start a family and just want to take their kids and leave, and leave the father with nothing" and then maybe you could also add ' But they left the country anyway because why should they have to follow any laws"


I am sorry but you sound more like a soon to be abductor rather than a LBP.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: SageDad on September 06, 2012, 06:50:51 PM
How dare the Irish presume to challenge a mother's ownership of her children!?
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: BringJusticeHome on September 07, 2012, 12:45:33 AM
There's nothing that the U.S govt can or will do. Even if the U.S could help and had a legitimate reason to help you, they still would not. SageDad and NoansDad, actually have had their children abducted as well as myself. The U.S government did not and does not help us and we actually needed the help. As far as being mentally abused I never wish that upon anyone, but I can assure you that being mentally abuse is no worse then having your children taken away from you, and you not knowing when or if you will ever see them again. Your situation may be rough but at the end of the day you have your children in your life and should be grateful for that. If you were married to this man I do not know the Irish law, but if it's anything like the American laws then you should be able to file for alimony or spousal support, and that should help you remain in the country with your children.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: BringJusticeHome on September 07, 2012, 12:59:00 AM
What really gets me is parents who view children as property. Parents who view their children more theirs then the other parent. It takes two, a man and woman to create a child and it takes two, a man and woman to raise a child. What gives either parent the right to rip a child away from the other parent. Just because a relationship did not or does not work, does not mean that now only one parent gets the children. Kids will always need their mother and their father. Being mentally abused to some is much more worse then being physically abused but that gives you no right to take a child away from their parent. If the abuse is being done to the child then yes, but you never mentioned any abuse to your children. My son was abducted and taken away from me for the first few years of life. By the grace of god i am now able to finally be a father and raise my son. I want the best for my son and always will do whats in the best interest for him. Whats in the best interest is that my child has his mother and father. Even though my sons mother abducted him, and probably will again. I will never be apart of keeping him away from his mother unless it is necessary for his safety.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: dmdaven2 on September 07, 2012, 11:34:34 AM
Soooo need help abducting huh?
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: rmakielski on September 07, 2012, 07:04:41 PM
snowdove,
With all due respect, I hope that you will find solution that is best for your children rather that what is best for you. Your children need both parents. Work out a plan so that both you and your ex can agree to have equal time. Get mirror court orders in both Ireland and the U.S. If you need help with this try to find a mediator that specializes in international marriages.It may be difficult with little or no money. But any other option you will find to be more costly and both money and your children's wellfare.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: StrngConviction on September 08, 2012, 09:00:28 AM
yes i can live in ireland, but this law for Americans is  crap, four years, i fought to have my children and the only thing im told is that the irish passport out weights theirs american one,.. I dont want to live in Ireland due to work.. I posted here as to bring attention to the  fact the US does nothing to help us.
Its confusing at this point , you mention an American passport. Are they American or Irish? Where exactly were they born? In your previous post it sounded like you said you moved to Ireland married and had two children with the Irishman in Ireland.Is this correct or were they born in America?
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: StrngConviction on September 08, 2012, 09:07:04 AM
I thought this was the site for the American mother who lost her child to the irish law, like I did,,, I was mentally abused for years, and had no money to return to the states, when I finially had the chance to get out, i was told I could not take the kids and have to remain there till they are 18.. i dont want your pity I wanted to know what  we can do, as there are many of us out there, who have no clue that even kids born in the states can be removed to Ireland.. so sorry and you can remove my posts

Your comment here is absolutely true , even American kids are removed to and held captive in Ireland. I believe this is due to another thing you mentioned , labor force. There is none  because the men that come of age know that the economy there is in a shambles and they leave as soon as they can. Ireland will do anything to rebuild it including holding American children like they are doing mine against American court orders.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: snowdove on September 08, 2012, 11:06:31 AM
Again sorry I upset this forum, as I SAID I thought it was the forum for the little boy removed from the states and made to live in Ireland. Who was born in the states and not is forced to lived there.  My case as I pointed out but everyone rather put me through the ringer, is years of mental abuse, my kids were little when I left him.  He used the law to his side, as he always told me if I leave I will lose the kids and have nothing.  The crash of the country has forced me to live in another country close enough to visit them.  He has told my kids I ran out on them, knowing the truth that I was very depressed and had to get myself sorted first before I could even think of fighting.  Now I have joint rights, but he will not let them come to visit me, even though I had agreed to this, if I signed the house and bank account over to him, which I did and then in the court he changed his mind,,, the point was that again the kids have BOTH passports and America leaves us mothers out to dry.  He didnt want to raise them but did this to hurt me.... the kids spend most of their time with a babysitter...so if you want to judge me because you feel your points are different try to think about... again please remove the post as it is upsetting you all
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: NoansDad on September 08, 2012, 12:15:44 PM
I would like to make a point on this post and something I see often, usually in interviews and in newspaper articles written, on this subject. I will say that I am sometimes not above making the same mistakes due to my anxiety and emotions when trying to talk or communicate about my situation and about this topic, BUT I think it helps all if the communication about the points people are trying to make are MADE PERFECTLY CLEAR.


It was made quite clear in the first responding post by BringJusticeHome... 'You didn't say much about your situation". And, might I add that even when I think you tried, I still have virtually no idea on what has happened in your case or your situation... And guess what, that doesn't help you. It doesn't help anyone who may be able to help you, it doesn't help any of us you are still looking for help.


If you write a line such as, "Who was born in the states and not is forced to lived there." I have no bloody idea what you are talking about. NO IDEA. Unfortunately for you.. I now think you must be an idiot, that you very well could be the danger to your children. You have lost your credibility and you have lost any chance of sympathy. And that now hurts me and every other LBP here trying to be heard.


Everyone on this site is well aware of the fact that abductors seem to be able to go to court, or on the media and ramble whatever they want, with out any evidence and literally without any thought or preparation on what they say. It is a particular fact of this situation that substantiating claims and making even a drop of sense from one side of the parties involved never seems to be an issue. This is the fact that can cause such anger from a LBP. I would hope that we continue to make sure that we support and push each other to be mindful of the higher level of proof and communication that we need to hold ourselves to, lest we become like our children's abductors and start making no sense and illicit no sympathy.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: BringJusticeHome on September 08, 2012, 12:59:49 PM
Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I have seen in a few cases people are focusing on where the child was born. If both parties agree to move to another country to live and raise their children there, then where the child is born is irrelevant. The whole point of The Hague is to return children to their habitual residence, so that the governing authority can decide custody. Habitual residence to me is wherever both parties decided to raise their child. The hague is not supposed to be used to determine custody, as all of us have seen this is not what actually happens.

From what you have said, and again you still have not given us much information. The information that you have given us is not doing you any justice, because we all are confused and do not understand your case. From the sounds of it, this is not an international abduction case nor international custody case. You agreed to live in Ireland with your then husband and children, or you married him there and had your kids there. That information is still unknown, because you have not given us a direct answer to WHERE WERE YOUR KIDS BORN? Regardless of where they were born you both agreed to live there, at some point. Unless you can show proof that some how this man forced you or coerced you to move to Ireland, then you are not going to get much help from anybody.

All this sounds like is an ugly divorce and custody matter. These things go on everyday in America as I'm sure in every other country. They are ugly, depressing and mentally draining. However they do go on everyday and your case does not seem any different then a normal custody case. The fact that you are from America ( atleast I think you are), and you live in another country, makes this case more difficult but you did agree to move there (again this information is still unclear).

The fact that you guys are now separated and that he mentally abused you for years, does not give you the right to take BOTH of your guys children away from him. You say he is telling your kids certain things that you ran out on them. Number one you just admitted to running out on them. " He has told my kids I ran out on them, knowing the truth that I was very depressed and had to get myself sorted first before I could even think of fighting." As a parent myself, once you give birth you now have a lifetime commitment to your children. There are no taking breaks to sort things out, if your a mother or father your a mother or father for life 24 hours a day, 7 days a week 365 days a year. Number two if he is indeed lying to your kids and trying to fill their heads with negative thoughts about you, that is a form of mental abuse called PARENTAL ALIENATION. I do not know the laws in Ireland, but I believe in Brazil this is illegal and against the law there.

This is just my two cents you can take it or leave it, but you just admitted to being depressed. You have admitted to leaving your children, because you were depressed and needed to sort things out. Based on that I would say you do not deserve and should not be granted anything but joint custody and that is pushing it. You with out a doubt should never be granted full custody after what you just said, and with no proof of any abuse done to your children by your ex-husband. Parenting when not married is extremely hard especially when one parent is not from the country. You can not take back having children with this man, and that means that you will have to just suck it up and make due for the health and happiness of your children. Unfortunately in your case and most cases like yours, one parent is going to get the sh*tty end of the bargain. In your case because you are not from that country as far as I know, that person is going to be you.

You sound like you are on the verge of abducting your children, and taking them away from their father. I highly and whole heartedly suggest before you do anything stupid to think of your CHILDREN first, and not yourself. Your children need both parents. Unfortunately for you it is going to be much harder, but I suggest you fight to survive, fight for your kids to have both parents, and fight to make sure that both parents live in the same country.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: snowdove on September 09, 2012, 12:23:20 AM
if you can read th last post I posted then it is cleared up, instead of still saying Im not telling the story.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: StrngConviction on September 09, 2012, 09:20:33 AM
I read your post about the  parental alienation of your children and I feel sad for you  and your children Snowdove. I am not judging you and hope in the days to come you can find some serenity. Some of us on here feel  isolated or " different" because of the abduction variable, but all in all , this is about the children, abduction, child abuse , divorce, whatever . I hope you and your children  find a way to grow together because that is what they need, you and their Father, it was honorable of you to stay close in order to do that.
Title: Re: American mother and kids can't leave Ireland
Post by: dmdaven2 on September 12, 2012, 11:42:46 AM
I mean, If my name was SnowDove...you come here and realize it's the wrong forum...why even continue posting? Use google and find out the forum you were initially attempting to find and begin there. There's no way anyone here is going to be able to help you...nor would most of us even volunteer the time when our situations are 10 trillion times more severe. The problem with mothers like you is that you always think about yourself and just because the father and you no longer get along, doesn't mean he isn't good to the kids. If you want to move...then move...but don't think your children automatically HAVE to go because you want to go. This is how abductions begin...the mother thinking she's the best fit parent by default...when really, that's not always the case.